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394-609_A.mp3
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Always we are filled with a strange sense of the mystery and the miracle of life in our private
lives. We are mindful of so many little blessings. Some so intimate, so closely binding, that to us
they do not seem to be blessings at all. The ability to get tired and to be renewed by rest and
relaxation. The taste of food. The peculiar quality that only cool water has when we drink it. The
tender reminders of the love of mother and father, of sister, of brother, husband, wife, of child.
And the coming of daybreak, the experience of daylight, the intimate quality of twilight, and then
the mystery of darkness. And all the dimensions of meaning that each of us finds in this cycle of
movement that wraps us, and sustains us, and holds us with such security. The heritage, which is
ours. Ideas, notions, values, all of the monitors of our behavior and our living that nudge us on
the elbow when there is a fleeting moment that would lead us to disaster.
And to those things that would make our lives sad and broken. For our land with its resources so
abundant-- fresh vegetables to eat, climate that does not threaten too disastrously, the little wind
breaks that we build against the weather. Beyond all of this, a sense of being upheld, cradled, by
a feeling of strength that is not of our making. Something that gives to our lives a quality of
integrity and meaning, which we did not generate.
The whisper that comes in the heart telling us to lift up our heads and be of good courage. All of
the benedictions of our lives, we remember them, Our Father, as we sit here, or wherever we are,
remembering and waiting for the movement of Thy Spirit in our hearts and our minds. We offer
to Thee, our thanks because we want to love Thee. We want to make of our lives the sacrament
in Thy hands. Teach us how, Our Father. Lest our spirits die, and all the virtue disappear from
our living. And we vanish as shadows in the dark. We do want to love Thee. Teach us how,
Father. Teach us how.
I'm continuing our thinking together about the moment of crisis. And this morning, the moment
of crisis, in the life of Abraham Lincoln. I shall depart from what is customary, I think. I want to
do quite a bit of reading this morning.
First, I shall read from Benet's, John Brown's Body. This will establish the setting for what is on
my mind. Then I will try to say all that I have to say and in 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, or 16 minutes.
And then, the last part will be from the lips, from the pen, of Lincoln, himself. So I hope you will
just be.
"While I live and breathe, I mean to save the Union if I can. And by whatever means my hands
can find under the Constitution. I put the Union first and last, before the slave. If freeing slaves
will bring the Union back, then I will free them. If by freeing some, and leaving some enslaved, I
helped my cause, I will do that. But should such freedom mean the wreckage of the Union that I
serve, I would not free a slave."
If I may insert something here-- I remember the first time I read this-- not this-- from this book,
but the first time I read the words of Lincoln. Saying this, it exploded the myth that had been a
part of that which nurtured me as a boy. And for 10 weary years of my life, I could find no place
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in my mind and in my thought for this man. Because having been conditioned so early with such
terrifying stories about what slavery was like, as it came from the lips of the people who had
come through the experience, I could not understand how on earth, Lincoln, could say such a
thing. Changes came and it may be that in the 12 minutes it would be clear, maybe not.
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"All will have gone. I am a patient man. And I can wait like an old gun flint buried in the ground,
while the slow years pile up like moldering leaves above me, underneath the rake of time, and
turn in time to the dark fruitful mold that smells of Sangamon apples till at last there is no sleep
left there. And the steel event descends to strike the live coal out of me, and light the powder that
was always there. This is my only virtue as I see it. Ability to wait and hold my own, and keep
my own resolves once they are made, in spite of what the smarter people say.
I can't be smart the way that they're smart. I've known that since I was an ugly child. It teaches
you to be an ugly child. It teaches you to lose the thing you love. It's sticks your roots down into
Sangamon ground and makes you grow when you don't want to grow. And makes you tough
enough to wait life out. Wait like the fields under the rain and snow."
Then-- "I've never found a church that I could join. Although I've prayed in churches in my time,
and listened to all sorts of ministers-- well, they were good men, most of them. And yet, the thing
behind their words, it's hard to find. I used to think it wasn't there at all. Couldn't be there. I
cannot say that now. And now I pray to you, and to you alone, teach me to know your will.
Teach me to read your difficult purpose here, which must be claimed. If I had eyes to see, make
me just.
There was a man I knew near Pigeon Creek who kept a kennel full of hunting dogs. Young dogs
and old, smart hounds, and silly hounds. He'd sell the young ones every now and then, smart as
they were, and slick as they could run. But the one dog he'd never sell, or lend, was an old, half
dead, foolish looking hound, you wouldn't think had sense to scratch a flea unless the flea were
old and sickly too.
Most days, he used to lie beside the stove, or sleeping in a piece of sun outside. Folks used to
plague the man about that dog. And he'd agree to everything they said. No, he ain't much on
looks, much on speed. A young dog can outrun him any time. Outlook him, and out eat him, and
out leap him. But Mr, that dog is hell on a cold scent. And once he gets his teeth in what he's
after, he don't let go until he knows he's dead.
I am that old death hunting dog, oh Lord. And the world's kennel holds 10,000 hounds, smarter
and faster and with finer coats, to hunt your hidden purpose up the wind and bell upon the trace
you leave behind. But even when they fail, and lose the scent, I will keep on. Because I must
keep on until you utterly reveal yourself and sink my teeth in justice, soon or late.
There is no more to ask of earth, or fire, and water only runs between my hands. But in the air I
look. In the blue air, the old dog muzzled down to the cold scent, day after day, until the tired
years crackle beneath his feet like broken sticks. And the last barren bush consumes with peace.
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I should have tried the course with younger legs. This hunting ground is stiff enough to pull the
metal heart out of a dog of steel. I should have started back at Pigeon Creek from scratch, not 40
years behind the mark. But you can't change yourself. And if you could, you might fetch the
wrong jackknife in the swap. It's up to you to whittle what you can with what you've got.
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And what I am, I am, for what it's worth, [? hipple, ?] and legs, and all. I can't complain. I'm
ready to admit you could have made a better looking dog from the same raw material, no doubt.
But since you didn't, this will have to do. Therefore, I utterly lift up my hands to you. And here
and now, beseech your aid. I have held back when others tugged me on. I've gone on when
others pulled me back striving to read your will, striving to find the justice and expedience of this
case. Hunting an arrow down the chilly airs, until my eyes are blind with the great wind, and my
heart sick with running after peace.
And now, I stand and tremble on the last edge of the last blue cliff. A hound, beat out, tail down,
and belly flattened, to the ground. My lungs are breathless and my legs are whipped. Everything
in me is whipped, except my will. I can't go on. And yet, I must go on.
I will say this-- two months ago I read my proclamation, setting those men free, to [? Seward ?]
and the rest. I told them then, I was not calling on them for advice, but to hear something that I
meant to do. We talked about it. Most of them approved the thing, if not the time. Then Seward
said something that I hadn't thought of. I approve the proclamation, but if issued now, with our
defeats in everybody's mouth, it may be viewed as a last shriek for help from an exhausted,
beaten, government. Put it aside until a victory comes, then issue it with victory. He was right.
I put the thing aside, and ever since there has been nothing for us but defeat. Still no news. Oh, if
I had eyes that could look into Maryland. If I could move that battle with my hands. No it won't
work. I'm not a General. All I can do is trust the men who are.
I'm not a General, no, I promise this-- here at the end of every ounce of strength that I can
muster, here in the dark pit of ignorance that is not quite despair, and doubt that does, but must
not break the mind. The pit I have inhabited so long at various times and seasons that my soul
has taken color in its very grains from the blind darkness, from the lonely cave that never hears a
footstep but my own, nor ever will while I am a man alive to keep my prison locked from
visitors.
What if I heard another footstep there? What if some day there is no one but God? No one but
God who could descend that stair, and ring his heavy footfalls on the stone. And if God came,
what would we say to him? That prison is ourselves that we have built in being so, it's loneliness
is just. In being so, it's loneliness endures. But if another came, what would we say? What can
the blind say, given back their eyes? No it must be as it has always been.
But one thing I know, God is not a jailer. And I make a promise now to you, and to myself. If
this last battle is a victory, and they can drive the rebel army back from Maryland, back over the
Potomac, my proclamation shall go out at last to set those other prisoners and slaves from this
next year, then and forever free. So much for my will. God, show me what is yours.
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Ah, that must be news. Those footsteps in the hall, good news, or else it wouldn't come so fast.
What is it, hey? Yes. Yes. I'm glad of that. I'm very glad. There's no mistake this time. We have
the best of them. They're in retreat. This is a great day, Stanton. If McClellan, can only follow up
the victory now. Lord, I will keep my promise and go on your will, and much still being dark to
me. But in this one thing as I see it, plain.
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And yet, if Lee, slips from our hands again, as he well may, from all those last reports, and the
war still goes on. And still no end, even after this Antietam, not for years. I cannot read it. But I
will go on. Old dog, old dog, settle to the scent, and with fresh breath now from this breathing
space, Almighty God. At best, we never seem to know, Your Holy, but there is something left a
strange last courage. We can fail, and fail, and fail, but deep against the failure, something wars.
Something goes forward. Something lights a match. Something gets up from Sangamon County
ground, armed with a bitten and a blunted ax. And after 20,000 wasted strokes, brings the tall
hemlock crashing to the ground."
A crisis is the experience in which a man passes. When he senses that he is being pulled in
contrary directions by two forces moving in opposite directions. And he must go one way, or the
other. To make the decision, sometimes means a repudiation of one's past, as in the case of the
Apostle, Paul. To make the decision, sometimes means the confirmation of one's past, as in the
case of Jesus of Nazareth.
With Abraham Lincoln, the crisis came when he had retired from politics, against his will
somewhat, after having served one term in the House of Representatives, put all of his weight on
the wrong side, and was repudiated by his constituency. And he goes back, having shopped
around in Washington, to see if he could land something. Keep him going back home. Which is-still-- well, which does happen.
But he couldn't land anything. He couldn't even have anything to say about the patronage. So he
went back home and began the practice of law all over again. He was not a brilliant man. He was
a plotter. A man with a wealth of stories and humor. A man who was deeply, deeply ingrained in
the insight of the Founding Fathers. Because it is through them he felt that this country had been
projected. And one of the most important and exciting things about it was that the nature of the
freedom which had guaranteed. That there was no ceiling for the individual that was established
by the state. This is important.
He was attending to his business during this lull after his experience in politics-- practicing,
reading all the things he could get his hands on. The familiar picture that is given, as you
recognize. Having his horse set in the road that would go to the next town. He didn't have to
guide the horse. He could simply settle back in the buggy and read. And then, this horse met
another horse. He recognized him as his cousin. And they greeted each other and they went on.
Lincoln was understood.
Now, this was making of him a very good lawyer and he was making some money. As a matter
of fact, one of his peak years, he made as much as $2,500. And many years ago that was a lot of
money because it's a lot of money today. Now he lived with the other lawyers. You know, they
travel-- they made the circuits, you see. And you didn't have hotels in those days. So you lived in
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boarding houses. Sometimes as many as seven or eight lawyers would be sleeping in one room,
two in a bed, during court.
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All the time, Lincoln, was deepening his sense of history as affecting American life. And then-then, something happened. Douglas, who was in the Senate, and was the chairman-- he was in
the congress and was the chairman of the Territorial Committee. Reported out of his committee,
a bill, which opened up Kansas and Nebraska, finally, as territories. And these territories-- into
these territories, it would be possible for slavery to go.
Now if this is successful, then it would mean that, that interdiction which was a part of the
Missouri Compromise would be waved aside and slavery would be given a new lease on life. For
it could invade territory that was being opened up. And then, at last, it could go anywhere,
Lincoln felt. And this, in his judgment, was a violation of the mind and the spirit and the will of
the Founding Fathers. For they took into account, says Lincoln, and the other men, about his
time, who felt the same way. They took into account the fact of slavery, but they thought that if
they could confine slavery to a certain area, and freeze it there, then if it had no, no way by
which it could expand, it would die on the vine.
Whether this was right, or wrong, was beside the point. But this is the way they felt. And
therefore, when Lincoln saw that this whole new territory would be opened up, and that slavery
would move out now, and begin to grow, and develop, and finally become the universal in
America, he said, I was shaken to my roots as I have never been shaken before. And I knew that
I would have to put all of the weight of my mind, and my resources, and my experience, on the
side of the meaning of freedom under the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, and
I could not, any longer, afford the luxury of merely withdrawing from the fray and being a
practitioner of the law at the bar.
And so, we find him now, snatched up by what seemed to him, rightly or wrongly, to have been
the movement of the hand of destiny interpreted by this man who was not a churchman, as the
act of the will of God on his life, that sent him out now to engage in the fray to put-- to do
everything that he could to save the Union, which to him meant, to save freedom not only for
America, but for all the world. And when he stepped out in to these debates with Douglas, with
this basic commitment becoming now the hard core of his purpose, and feeling that in so doing,
he was no longer Abe Lincoln, but he was the living instrument in the hands of him who
controlled the destiny of America, and who controlled the freedom of all peoples in the world.
When this happened, a dam broke in his spirit and in his life. And what was dead pros, a kind of
homespun, wooden pros, becomes now, shot through with the kind of glory that makes his words
carry the majesty of prayer.
Listen to the words.
"Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth, upon this continent, a new nation,
conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. Now we are
engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived, and so
dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle field of that war. We have come to
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dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives, that,
that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.
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But, in a larger sense, we cannot dedicate, we cannot consecrate, we cannot hallow this ground.
The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here have consecrated it far above our powers to
add or detract. The world will little note, or long remember what we say here, but it can never
forget what they did here.
It is for us, the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought
here, have thus, so far, so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task
remaining before us that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for
which they gave the last full measure of devotion that we here highly resolve that these dead
shall not have died in vain, that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom and
that government of the people, by the people, and for the people, shall not perish from the earth."
And then, at a later time, on the occasion of his second inaugural, fellow countrymen at the
second appearing to take the oath of the presidential office, there is less occasion for an extended
address than there was at first. Then a statement, somewhat in detail of a cause to be pursued,
seemed fitting and proper. Now, at the expiration of four years, during which public declarations
have been constantly called forth on every point and phase of the great contest which still
absorbs attention and grosses the energies of the nation, little that is new could be presented.
The progress of our arms, upon which all else chiefly depends, is as well known to the public as
to myself. And it is, I trust, reasonably satisfactory and encouraging to all with high hopes for the
future. No prediction in regard to it, is ventured.
On the occasion corresponding to this four years ago, all thoughts were anxiously directed to an
impending civil war. All dreaded it. All thought to avoid it. While the inaugural address was
being delivered from this place, devoted altogether to saving the union without war, insurgent
agents were in the cities seeking to destroy it without war. Seeking to dissolve the Union and
divide effects by negotiation. Both parties deprecated war. But one of them would make war
rather than let the nation survive. And the other would accept war rather than let it perish. And
the war came.
One eighth of the whole population were colored slaves. Not distributed generally over the
Union, but localized in the southern part of it. These slaves constituted a peculiar and powerful
interest. All knew that this interest was somehow the cause of the war. To strengthen, to
perpetuate, and extend this interest, was the object for which the insurgents would rend the
Union even by war, while the government claimed no right to do more than to restrict the
territorial enlargement of it.
Neither party expected for the war the magnitude of the duration which it has already
maintained. Neither anticipated that the cause of the conflict might cease with, or even before,
the conflict itself should cease. Each looked for an easier triumph and a result less fundamental
and astounding. Both read the same Bible, and prayed to the same God. And each invokes his aid
against the other.
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It may seem strange that any man should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing their
bread from the sweat of other men's faces, but let us judge not that we do not judged. The prayers
of both could not be answered. That of neither has been answered fully.
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The Almighty has his own purposes. Woe unto the world because of offenses, for it must needs
be that offenses come. But woe to that man by whom the offense cometh. If we shall suppose
that American slavery is one of those offenses, which in the Providence of God, must needs
come. But which having continued through his appointed time, he now wields to remove. And
that he gives to both North and South this terrible war as the war due to those by whom the
offense came.
Shall we design, there in, any departure from those divine attributes which the believers that are
living, God always ascribed to him? Fondly, do we hope. Fervently, do we pray that this mighty
scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet if God wills that it continue until all the wealth
piled by the bondsman's 250 years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and every drop of blood
drawn from the last shall be paid by another, drawn from the sword, as was said 3,000 years ago,
so still it must be said, the judgments of the law are true and righteous altogether.
With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see
the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in. To bind up the nation's wounds, to care for
him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his offer. To do all which may
achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations.
Our hearts are deeply stirred, and our mind refreshed by this witness of the movement of Thy
spirit in the heart of a man, Thy Father. Grant that in the way that we take, we shall do no
violence to that spirit. That is the things that we control, and in the things that control us, we may
be able to bring joy to Thy heart. And praise to Thy name that the time may never come when
Thou shalt be ashamed of us, oh, living Father of Thy living children.
[ORGAN PLAYING]
(SINGING) Amen.
Amen.
Amen.
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Moment of Crisis (1958, Marsh Chapel, Boston University, Boston, MA)
Description
An account of the resource
In this series, Thurman uses the lives of the Apostle Paul, Jesus Christ, and Abraham Lincoln as examples of moments of crisis. He concludes the series with a message on the response of religious communities to the marginalized in society.
[Note: Part 1 of the series is not available]
Date
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1958
Contributor
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Descriptions by ShaCarolyn Halyard and Rodell Jefferson III
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<iframe width="100%" height="820" frameborder="0" src="/files/players/394-609_A.html" ></iframe>
Internal Notes
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Edited - GL 7/6
Location
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Marsh Chapel, Boston University, Boston, Massachussetts
Time Period
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1950s
Original Title
Title as transcribed from tape cassette
Moment of Crisis, parts 4 and 5, 1958 Mar 2, 9
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394-609_A
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Thurman, Howard
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Moment of Crisis, Part 4, 1958 March 2
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<a href="http://pid.emory.edu/ark:/25593/rp8k9">MSS 394</a>
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audio
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<a href="http://pitts.emory.edu/">Pitts Theology Library, Emory University</a>
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1958-03-02
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<a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/"><img style="border-width:0;" src="https://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc/4.0/80x15.png" alt="80x15.png" /></a><br />This work is licensed under a <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/">Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International License</a>. 2019.
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GEOMETRYCOLLECTION(POINT(-7915565.7490374 5213612.6443988))
Description
An account of the resource
This installment of Moment of Crisis focuses on Abraham Lincoln. Thurman shares an excerpt from President Lincoln’s memoir that speaks to the personal crisis he faced as he grappled with whether slaves should be freed in the interest of saving the Union. Lincoln, heavily influenced by the founding fathers, believed that slavery was a violation of the mind, spirit, and will of the founding fathers. Still, those who embraced slavery and those in opposition of slavery understood that lives would be lost should the country go to war. The implications if emancipation as it relates to the Confederacy are woven into this lecture as well.
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Description by ShaCarolyn Halyard
America
choice
crisis
slavery
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394-358_A.mp3
Conversations with Howard Thurman, Friday, September the 19th, 1980.
And when I finish that, then I would like for us to get some introduction to each other,
[INAUDIBLE] wherever you want to say that can be repeated.
[LAUGHTER]
I'm sorry.
Is this part off the record?
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Now, before we move in to the more [INAUDIBLE] part of our time, which begins when we talk
about our own search and who we are and anything that will give us a sense of you and your own
journey, I want to read something.
Oh, nothing is off the record, [INAUDIBLE]. But [INAUDIBLE] we are going to get acquainted
with each other inevitably at a what I hope to be an increasingly deeper level. So you don't need
to bother about that. But what we-- we want some handles, anything. Tell me your name to
anything else you want to say that would give you a feeling of being at home in our journey and
also just a glimpse of something else that is so important.
And that is that if for a minute maybe or a second, maybe for a lifetime-- I don't know-- but you
submit your passkey into somebody's hands so they can open the door and walk around and take
a look at that part of you that if it is seen, will give you a sense that your isolation is temporarily
broken.
Because I think that everybody feels in some way that he or she is-- well, I don't know how to
say it-- he is she is in a room in which there are no doors. And I think there's nothing quite as
confirming as the feeling that somebody knows you in that room. Someone knows you in that
room. But you can't shout loud enough for them to hear you. That's pretty grim, though, I think.
[LAUGHTER]
I don't mean to be grimmy like that, but sometimes I think that the whole journey of man's life is
to break out a sense of isolation, not solitariness, but isolation. And I think the spiritual root of
that is the great built-in desire to be understood.
In one of [INAUDIBLE] childhood experiences with her missionary parents in South Africa, a
favorite friend of hers who was the clergyman of the Anglican church-- [INAUDIBLE] her
father was a missionary for the London Missionary Society. And there was no great love
between these two offshoots to the Protestant religious experience.
And [INAUDIBLE] liked this man. But she was not permitted to give any evidence of this
because she was in the way. So she hid his hat. Because she knew that he wouldn't dare go out to
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the South African sun without his hat. And they couldn't find it anywhere. And her mother called
her. Said, did you do anything with the father's hat or whatever she called him.
Oh, she said, yes. I hid it. I want him to stay with us forever. So I'm going to lose-- 10 years old,
now-- I'm going to lose my personal identity, so I can't remember what I did with it.
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[LAUGHTER]
You know, how insecure a parent must feel when a 10-year-old child says that to you. But I'm
concerned in our journey that one of the overtones that will come from this will be that now and
then when we want to open the door of our sense of isolation, we can feel that we are seen and
not stared at.
So when I finish reading this, we'll have a little moment. And then I'd like for each one of us to
say anything that gives us a scent on your trail.
In every life there are a few special moments that count for more than all the rest. And because
they meant the taking of a stand, a self-commitment, a decisive choice. It is commitment that
creates the person. It is the pressing need to find meaning for one's life, to subordinate the whole
of one's life to that mean.
It is this need, this inner inspiration which is from God. All the ideologies, all the doctrines, all
the formulas drawn up by men will pass. Every ideal, too, grows old in its turn. Only the true and
living god remains.
Thus, the knowing encounter with the living God is the greatest possible human event. The
circumstances and forms of this encounter may be infinitely variating. It always comes as such a
surprise that the conviction is inescapable, that it is the doing of God, the result of God's direct
initiative.
And then therefore, inherent in life is meaning, M-E-A-N-I-N-G. Inherent in life is meaning.
This is a quality independent of the way in which outside forces may operate upon it. The life in
the seed bursts forth in root and stalk and fruit. The whole process takes place within.
Now, many forces may operate upon it from without, cramping the roots, making the shape of
the stalk into a caricature of itself. But always, with whatever life there is, the built-in purpose is
never giving up. Concerning this meaning, there is no doubt wherever life appears.
This is the integrity of life. It is a commitment of life. This is the singular characteristic of all
aliveness. This is the miracle, the shaping of matter from within, the materializing of vitality.
The total experience seems to take place in a manner so pervasive that we look in vain for the
center, for the location, of the secret.
Can life's experience of itself at the level of tree and plant, cat and dog, even in the body of a
man, be also life's experience of itself at the level of the mind? Is there a meaning inherent in the
life of the mind itself? That is the unfolding of an inner logic not to be accounted for in terms of
stimulus from the outside or response to the outside.
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May it be that all the dreams, the hopes, the creative flashes like summer lightning, which do not
ever quite desert the human mind, that all these are inherent in the mind itself? Has meaning
characteristic of the life in the mind? Wherever life appears, it carries with it meaning, which is
characteristic of all vitality.
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Life means inherent order, built-in goals, patterns, designs. When the form of life becomes more
complex, the fact, too, is reflected in the pattern, the design, and the purpose.
Now, it may be that in the mind of man and the rich diversity and depth of human thought, in the
searching restlessness of which the word "spirit" seems more appropriate, the life inherent is
moving always towards goals and ends that are sensed only when realized.
And beyond all these, there may be a life of mankind which is more than individuals, more than
groups, but in which there is a built-in purpose, aim, and goal. Perhaps this is why we seem
always to be presented with goals that can never be realized, that ends which can never be
fulfilled. Thus, the ultimate word which is reserved for god is creator. A creative act must always
be the person, the private act.
Now I would like for us to get acquainted with each other at a level that is surface, words. And
say anything you want to say that will give us peep holes into-- and we'll start-- [INAUDIBLE]
would you like to say yours so you can go?
I'm Sue Thurman. That's just [INAUDIBLE].
Well, I didn't mean-- all right. So you're at liberty to leave.
I'm going to sit over here so I can look at faces.
All right, dear. That's fine. But be our guest, sort of taking your leave whenever you-- Mary
Ellen will we start with you? And swing around.
I'm going to check the mic on the way to you.
I'm Mary Ellen and-Can you hear? You say it loud enough--
Let me ask a question before you start. Thanks, Mary Ellen. Are you all cool enough now that
we could shut this door? I'm getting so much traffic noise.
I would rather have it open, myself.
Seems noisy.
Crack it down a little bit, and then we'll be able-OK.
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All right. OK.
You know my name is Mary Ellen. What maybe you don't know is that I'm sorry that I was late.
[LAUGHTER]
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[INAUDIBLE] OK. I'm very happy to be here. It's a privilege to be here. I guess you're hoping I
say some things as a way of identification, so that kind of thing.
Yeah. Just-- not the whole story of your life, but enough to give us a handle. Anything you want
to say. Two minutes, three minutes, four minutes, six minutes.
[LAUGHTER]
I guess what I-- why I'm hesitating is because I don't-- we identify ourselves in different ways
sometimes depending on the person that we're talking with, I mean in the situation that you're in,
whether you're meeting a new friend or looking for a job or whatever. And I guess we're kind of
a different coming together, I feel.
So quickly then, I've been a teacher. I've done agency work. I like working with people. I like
working with children, especially. I have been married. I am divorced. I have three grown sons.
I'm now just beginning a leave of absence without pay from my teaching job.
I'm moving toward a simple life, I think, maybe out of necessity. And I will have this
[INAUDIBLE] maybe the year studying at Yale Divinity School. I have an interest in religion
and religions. And I have a part-time job at a day care center, which keeps me in touch with little
folks. So that's quite a bit about myself, I think, for a start.
Where were you born?
I was born in Des Moines.
[INAUDIBLE]
But I grew up in Detroit.
I'm [INAUDIBLE]. I'm 152 years old.
Let us guess.
My husband of 30 years is a chemical engineer. And we have four children, a son, 25, and girls
ages 23, 20, and 17. We're praying for strength to get her to 18. We live 15 miles from here, both
of us having come from New York state. My interests are religion, in the sense of how the
peoples of the world go about searching for god, psychology, holistic health, particularly the
connection between man's mental and physical health and his religious beliefs, reading and
writing.
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I was trying to think of some kind of tribute to make to Dr. Thurman.
[INAUDIBLE]
Pitts Theology Library
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Oh, I have something good. I found him 16 years ago in a book. And it would be very difficult to
explain what a good teacher and friend he has been all these years. And to me, he answers the
question which I had always had. Does God create man in his own image? And I was never sure.
And I met Howard Thurman. And I know he does. [INAUDIBLE]
Thank you. Coming here tonight is my 59th birthday present. And when I was 34 and a very
troubled young woman thinking, is this really all there is to life. I had a beautiful home, a
husband, and two children. But there was some little voice within me saying, is this all? Is this
all? I this all there is to it?
I had a first real breakthrough religious experience-- I had never belonged to a church-- in a CFO
camp. I won't go into that. But someone I met there-- well, I have to say first, my husband was
very disturbed by this experience that I've had. He was not there. He was not present.
And trying to figure out what was happening to me, he said, where are you now? Where are you
now? And I listened within myself, and the words that came was, I think I'm growing in love.
But I don't really know what that means. And the following Sunday, a young woman came to my
door. We'd been at the same CFO camp. And she said, put on your hat. We were at the breakfast
table. I'm taking you someplace.
No nos. I'm just taking you someplace, and you're to come. I know this is for you. And she took
me to Fellowship Church. And when I picked up the program for the day, the sermon with Dr.
Thurman was Growing in Love.
And when you were through speaking, I didn't think I was going to be able to leave the seat. I
felt like a piece of limp spaghetti. And I can't tell you what he said. I only know that he threw
open those doors you were saying were closed in time. And I knew that someone else knew and
that I was on the right journey. And that has been my journey and continues to be my journey.
[INAUDIBLE]
Presently, I was married for 30 years and divorced. And I'm in an entirely new life. I'm now
married to Del Anderson, who is the president of the overseas branch of CFO. Well, we have 64
camps around the world. And from the little housewife, mother, the acorn, the oak tree is
beginning to sprout. And I find that my world has become very large and that love needed to
grow to start encompassing that larger life. And so the larger world is growing me and I am
finding that oneness many, many places.
[INAUDIBLE]
I'm Kenny Wood. And I'm a second-year theology student at San Francisco Seminary in San
Anselmo. I was born in San Antonio, Texas and hadn't left Texas until this year, which was a
real hard move for my family, who is my wife, Sharon, and Tiffany, our little girl who's three.
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I didn't know exactly why we were coming out here, except that there was a man at the seminary
who was a hero of mine named Browne Barr. I wanted to be a preacher. And a friendship began
between Dr. Barr and myself. And so we came. We packed up and came.
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I've worked with teenagers, junior high and high school, young people, in a Baptist Church in
Dallas for 10 years. And in our tradition, at least where I'd grown up, the emphasis has always
been on doing enough. And I didn't really have a sense that there was any more than that, that I
knew of.
And I see now from the experiences I've had since we've been here, that this is one of the reasons
that I'm here and that my family and I are here, to make a search inside that has surprised me.
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, I've always been [INAUDIBLE] but I haven't always been aware of it. But a good portion
of my life, I have been. And I experienced-- I mean, I've had some experience with reality, with
God. I haven't always been able to share my inner self as my wife, Lucille, can and does.
Incidentally, coming over, she was psyched up because she was looking forward to this so much.
And I said, gee, I won't even have to take to buy a cocktail after.
[LAUGHTER]
But this-- I just hit the jackpot. And then I found a birthday present that was so meaningful to
her. And I'm very grateful for that.
Yes. Thank you.
Because she's deserving of it.
Yes.
Whatever the best is that I can give to her.
I was born here in California right nearby. And that makes me unique, because [INAUDIBLE].
That's right. That's right.
[INAUDIBLE] As a boy, I was very poor, struggled, worked hard. And then through the grace of
God-- and it really was the grace of God. It couldn't have been otherwise. I was able to-- I was in
business. Had a dry-cleaning business. nothing very romantic about cleaning dirty clothing.
But when I was 43, I did retire from the economic [INAUDIBLE]. And have been able to do
many things that would have been impossible otherwise. And I've had-- God's blessed me with
tremendous [INAUDIBLE] high consciousness. And part of retirement going along, joyous and
skipping, and jumping and sometimes kind of kicking and screaming. But I've come along. And I
guess God's seen to that.
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[INAUDIBLE]
I'm Ruth [INAUDIBLE] from Carmel, so I'm not very far away. I've been there 16 years. My
roots are on a farm in Kansas. But I came out to California and transplanted 56 years ago. Most
of my work life has been a secretary, a very odd secretary at times.
Pitts Theology Library
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I have spent my 75th year looking at everything that I was doing. This was a suggestion of a
friend. And it became quite an interesting experience to look at everything I was doing to figure
whether it was something I really wanted to do, or whether I was doing it just because I got into
it or because somebody else wanted me to do it and I was doing that kind of thing.
That included several activities in the Quaker Church, Methodist Church-- in fact, I grew up
thinking the Methodist Church was really the only church there was-- Doing some things down
there like taping sermons, and I'm on the finance committee and education committee, doing
things like having a mimeograph in my home and doing SPCA benefit schedule, mimeographing
a [INAUDIBLE] for my family. There are still six children living. And I'm the next to the
youngest.
Working in the League of Women Voters, doing some secretarial work for them, getting
involved in a health services study, which really helped us to persuade the National League that
they will be doing a health services study in a couple of years.
I'm now just past my 76th and filling in those things which I have sloughed off and have the free
time now. So what was my office is now wallpapered with paper where I can stick a thumbtack
in and isn't going to make any difference, get all my books in one room instead of six rooms.
And also to figure out what it was that made me in 1933 when I was at a Junior Business Girls
conference in [INAUDIBLE] became very interested in one of the adult faculty or adult leaders.
And since then our paths have kind of crossed pretty often. So I think one thing that's happened
is that all of those things led to right here and right now.
Yeah.
Lois [INAUDIBLE]. I was born in South Dakota on a farm. I love the wide open fields. I seem to
have a sense of god and the spirit within me. I've been on that journey ever since. It's led me into
openings of myself.
I'm married, have a husband, daughter, and son, five grandchildren. I am a secretary to the pastor
[INAUDIBLE] Paradise Methodist Church. I have found that as I am open to the spirit, things
come. So I've been able to write, thanks to God. I love to read.
I think the most joy I've had is being an enabler for people who have wanted to learn from
Howard. And we have a roundtable in our home twice a month, in which we gather around a
table to share, to celebrate life. We give them hot soup, crusty bread and fruit, listen to one of Dr.
Thurmond's tapes, and then discuss it. People find they are moved, the spirit moves within them,
and things were happening because of you. And things have certainly happened with me because
of you.
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I'm Roger Eaton. I work in LA. I've come up to this symposium-- I'm not sure what to say.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
Don't think. [INAUDIBLE] Don't think, just say it.
Pitts Theology Library
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Well, what I was thinking, actually, was that you talk about being people-- people were locked
in. Well, I don't feel locked in. I feel like I'm-- this is just something that struck me. And if you
press me on it, I won't be able to back it up.
Of course not.
I feel like I'm in a drafty hall. I don't feel looked in at all. On the other hand, it doesn't all quite fit
together. So honestly, I worked for Princess Cruises. That's the Love Boat. I work as a computer
operator there. And I guess I'm here because I think Dr. Thurman understands a lot of things. I'm
really interested to try and make sense of what's going on. And I'm hoping maybe I'll learn to.
That's it.
I'm trying to think of what to say, and everything all flows together. I'm Sarah [INAUDIBLE].
I'm from Minneapolis. I've lived in Minnesota all my life. I was born, like some of the rest of us,
on a farm. And I'm the oldest of three daughters.
I've lived in the Cities in Minneapolis for about 30 years. I'm a teacher. A week ago, my teaching
life turned upside down as I listened to the tape that you asked us to listen to, so much of it fit in
to so many things that are going on for me today and through this week that it has just been so
different that it is special to be here because of what we're talking about and sharing, also to get
away from all of the-- not chaos, because what happened involved my taking a stand and
following it through.
I first met Dr. Thurman in 1966. And I heard him at a church that he was speaking in in
Minneapolis. And after the service, you go up and shake the person's hand and be
[INAUDIBLE]. And when he does it, a sense of presence is there to give you the feel or at least
to give me the feel that he's someone you've known all your life. It's a very special gift. I don't
think I've ever met anybody that has-- where I've felt that since, besides Dr. Thurman.
The things that I do in living my life and trying to blend the faith that I have with the things that I
do so that-- well, and as in what he read tonight, [INAUDIBLE]. What is the name of the tape,
the book?
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
The Creative Encounter. And all of life, everything that we do, becomes part of the reflection of
what we believe. And I teach in the inner city, I guess you call it, some fantastic kids. And my
life has been very enriched by the experiences that I've been able to share with them and that
they have shared with me. I've learned a lot about things that I didn't know that even existed to
learn about, because of the experiences that I've had with children who I was never in contact
with as a child and in my growing years. And that's been very special. It's special to be here.
8
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[INAUDIBLE] do you have anything to say before we-[INAUDIBLE]
Oh, no. I moved out of that because I can--
That's a good phrase.
[LAUGHTER]
Gee, whiz. Yeah, that's good.
[INAUDIBLE] Is there an interesting person [INAUDIBLE].
[INAUDIBLE]
Pitts Theology Library
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I think he wants me to say how very pleased we are to have you here. [INAUDIBLE] Join the
procession of those [INAUDIBLE].
I am. I am writing [INAUDIBLE]. And I work with the tapes. [INAUDIBLE] These beautiful
quarters were made available to us in 1974, in July of 1974. A couple of years before that, I had
recently moved to San Francisco and had made contact with Dr. Thurmond again. I had met him
years before when I was on the East Cost.
He asked me one day if I would be interested in looking at some tapes, some old tapes that he
had, to see if they were worth anything. And we went out in the garage together. And there were
some boxes [INAUDIBLE] and neatly packed, just like they had been shipped from one part of
the country to the other.
And then there were other boxes where half the tapes were strung out, and this and that. We
decided that the thing for us to do was to begin the newest tapes and kind of work backwards.
And then at any place, we just stopped, we'd have the best-- what would look like the best
material.
Well, I'm still here. And this was in '72. And there wasn't a scrap of that. I don't believe there was
a scrap of tape that I was going to [INAUDIBLE] throw away. So it's been a very rich experience
for me. And I am very, very pleased to be here to share with you what will be our experience
together this weekend.
She is from New Mexico. [INAUDIBLE]
New Mexico. Cattle rancher's daughter. I grew up in a cattle ranch [INAUDIBLE].
I think it's important to say about Joyce that without the work that she's been doing, we simply
would have no records of this. Because I don't write stuff to talk. I don't write sermons. I don't
write anything. So that the only records I have of what has come through me became available
only after the plastic tape recorder was invented.
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Pitts Theology Library
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For instance, for 15 years, I worked at Howard University as dean of the chapel. And there isn't a
scrap of anything that was said during those 15 years that's available anywhere, because they
didn't have tape recorders. And so that one part of my life in this dimension began when
somebody down the peninsula came up with this Ampex-- I think it's Ampex--
10
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Time Period
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1980s
Original Title
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Conversations with Howard Thurman (parts 1 and 2) (80-9/19-20-21), 1980 Sep 19-21
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394-358_A
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Thurman, Howard
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Conversations with Howard Thurman, September 1980, Parts 1 and 2, Side A
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<a href="http://pid.emory.edu/ark:/25593/rp8k9">MSS 394</a>
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audio
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<a href="http://pitts.emory.edu/">Pitts Theology Library, Emory University</a>
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1980-09-19
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Description
An account of the resource
This recording is a part of a wider series of conversations from September to October of 1980 where Howard Thurman met with a variety of young men and women who were discerning their calling to ministry. Thurman poses the intent of this group as an opportunity to "open up for one's self the moving, vital, creative push of God, while God is still disguised in the movement of God's self." Thurman's introductory remarks in this recording mention the tension that rests between isolation and solitude, noting that the "spiritual root" of breaking out of isolation is the "great built-in desire of being understood." These preliminary remarks set the foundation for the group of students who were sharing who they were, where they were from, and what their story was, to Howard and Sue Bailey Thurman.
Contributor
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Description by Dustin Mailman
aliveness
Anglican Church
being seen
Browne Barr
calling
choice
commitment
community
creative encounter
creativity
ecology
experience
Fellowship Church
Howard University
identity
imago dei
inner self
integrity of life
Isolation
Kansas
knowing
League of Women Voters
love
Love Boat
Minneapolis
New Mexico
Oak Tree
Olive Schreiner
oneness
order
passkey
religious experience
room with no doors
San Francisco Seminary
scent on one's trail
self-actualization
South Africa
South Dakota
Sue Bailey Thurman
teaching
vitality
Yale Divinity School
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394-275_A.mp3
"Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of my enemies. Thou anointest my head with
oil. My cup runneth over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life.
And I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever."
Pitts Theology Library
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"Strong Son of God, the immortal love, Whom we, that have not seen thy face, by faith and faith
alone, embrace, believing where we cannot prove. Our little systems have their day. They have
their day and cease to be. They are but broken lights of thee. But thou, O Lord, art more than
they." Amen.
I want you to think with me tonight-- [CLEARS THROAT] excuse me -- about the search for
meaning in man's experience of freedom. The search for meaning in man's experience of
freedom.
I want to read something as a prologue to what I have to say. And when you listen to it, very
carefully-- if I can find it. I know it's here, because-- oh, yes. "It is a strange freedom to be adrift
in the world of men without a sense of anchor anywhere.
Always, there is the need of muring-- the need for the firm grip on something that is rooted and
will not give. The urge to be accountable to someone to know that beyond the individual himself,
there is an answer that must be given.
The very spirit of a man tends to panic from the desolation of going nameless up and down the
streets of other minds where no salutation greets, and no friendly recognition makes secure. It is
a strange freedom to be adrift in the world of men.
Always, the way must be found for bringing into one's solitary place. The settled look from
another's face for getting the quiet sanction of another's grace to undergird the meaning of
yourself, to be ignored, to be passed over as of no account and as of no meaning is to be made
into a faceless thing, not a man.
It is better to be the complete victim of an anger unrestrained and the wrath which knows no
bounds to be torn asunder without mercy or battered to a pulp by angry violence. It is better to go
through all of this then to be passed over as if you are not.
Here at last, you are dealt with. You may be vanquished. You may be overcome, overwhelmed
but not ignored. It is a strange freedom to go nameless up and down the streets of other minds
where no salutation greets, and no sign is given to mark the place one calls one's own."
The search for meaning and man's experience of freedom. And the line that I want you to hold in
your minds-- and remember, if you forget all of the words in between, give me the strength to be
free and to endure the burden of freedom and the loneliness of those without change.
Let me say it again-- give me the strength to be free and to endure the burden of freedom and the
loneliness of those without change, change, change, change. I want you to work a little with me.
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And as I suggested before, if you get tired, just quit and then start up again when you get your
second wind, because I will be right here working until I finish.
Pitts Theology Library
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There is a fundamental distinction between liberty and freedom. Liberty represents that which
can be conferred upon another. It may represent the sharing of a collective sense of obligation on
the part of the common life.
It maybe be stored as a result of formal or informal agreement in which there is complete and
utter sanction. Therefore, it can be taken away. It can be withdrawn. Freedom, however, is an
experience of the spirit.
It is a quality of being rather than a condition, a category, or a classification, a quality, quality, of
being. Therefore, when I think with you tonight about the experience of freedom, I'm talking
about that which is most fundamental to the human spirit.
I want to give them two working definitions. The first one-- freedom is the ability to stand in
your place in the present. Now think with me. And so x in the present as to influence and
sometimes determine the future. So to act in the present as to determine, influence, or shape the
future.
Either life is fluid, dynamic, or it is static, sterile, and dead. My own feeling is more than a
feeling. I guess my own-- well, whatever it is is that life itself is alive, now, because you know
that you are alive. And the person next to you may be alive. You know your cats alive-- your
dog.
But the simple idea that life itself is alive is something around which the mind cannot quite get a
strong hold on. It's too simple, too profound, too vast, because you see, we are so overwhelmed
by all of the particular expressions of life all around us that these expressions of life make a kind
of mass attack on the mind.
And it obliterates this fundamental sense that life itself is alive. This is a living, breathing,
pulsing universe. And if that is the case, then it is possible for me standing in my place so to act
in the present as to influence that which is yet to come to pass because life is not fixed-- life is
not finished.
And, therefore, fundamental to this notion, there is a deeply lying elemental and frontal
conviction that there's always, finally, something that can be done about anything. Now, maybe
you don't believe that. Maybe you don't believe it. But you see the grounds along which the first
definition worked.
But the second definition's-- then I want to put my time on. The second working definition is that
freedom is a sense of option, a sense of choice, a sense of alternatives. Now mark you, mark you,
I did not say that freedom is at any given moment the ability to act on the option.
No, I didn't say that. I said that freedom is a sense, a seal of option. And as long as I have that, it
doesn't matter what the strictures and limitations of the context is in which my life is being lived.
As long as I have that, I'm free. I'm free."
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When I was a boy, I had an older sister. And one of the problems if you had an older sister, and
you were a little boy, well, one of the problems was that she wanted to freeze you at the point
where you were. You always are a little brother. And I was always trying to find some way to
show her-- well, that I was in. So--
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[LAUGHS]
One day we were going huckleberry picking-- I come from Daytona, Florida-- and we're going
out of the woods, huckleberry picking. And I knew that she was afraid of snakes.
And as we walked along this country road, I saw a little baby snake just going on about his
business across the road. And I called my sister's attention to the presence of this snake, because
I knew then she would react according to her pattern.
[LAUGHTER]
And she did. And I said, well, I'm not afraid of the snake. I'll show you. I'll stand on him with my
bare foot. So I put my foot down on this little creature. And the weight of my body was as such
that he could not move.
But there came up my leg in simple rhythmic shudders, this-- he couldn't move. But he could
keep alive the sense of options. Now this is what I mean. And as long as this is present, I'm free.
I am elated at the very core of my awareness. I'm alerted to that moment when I can up the
option. This is the fear, for instance, of all dictators.
This is why the dictator when he wishes to break the will of people, the knock comes at night
after everybody is going to bed. And the next morning, the father and the family is missing and
so forth and so on.
This feeling that you better not even keep alive the sense of option, because if you do,
unwittingly, you might do something that will spell disaster. And one of the surest ways by
which this is done is to give to men in any given civilization that he's trying to control a culture
that he's trying to control to give to them a fear of death, of death.
And if in the collective group a premium of supreme value can be placed upon my physical
existence-- now, follow me-- then if a man wishes to control me, all he needs to do is to threaten
to kill me.
But if I discover that death, even, is not the worst thing in the world, there are some things in life
that are worse than death. And when I discover that, I'm free. I'm free-- free-- free.
Now, the sense of option follow me. The sense of option, the sense of alternative. I can wait one
year, five years, 10 years, 1,000 years, holding this quivering anticipation of tomorrow.
And wait, [THUMP] wait with a full-on confidence that the vitality of life is on the side of the
vitality in me. And when these get together, nothing can hold me. When I was growing up, again,
you found me through referring to my own life. But it's only what I know.
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[LAUGHTER]
When I was a little boy in our little community, a traveling evangelist came. I suppose they're
still evangelists that go around. And he-- I've always remember him. I don't know what it looked
like. And I know that my grandmother took me.
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And I got myself comfortable in her lap. She had a great lap with her. And then I would just
settle down in there. And just before I dropped off to sleep, I heard him tell this story. I tried to
stay awake to see all the rest of it, but this is what I heard. He said, I was given a personally
conducted tour through hell.
Now, I wasn't assigned there. But I went on a tour, so sightseeing. And the first place to which I
was taken was a huge dance hall. Now, this dates me, because at that time, the two great sins, in
our church, coddling and dancing.
[LAUGHTER]
Those are the two great sins. So the first place of which this man was taken on this tour was a
huge dance hall where there were millions and millions and millions and millions of couples
dancing. And they had to dance forever and forever and forever and with the same partner.
[LAUGHTER]
And this was hell, because there was no alternative. Even the grounds of a sense of option were
dried up by the long reaches of the weary years of eternity. And then they were playing cards.
And the cards that they played was Five Up.
I don't even heard of a game called Five Up. But this is what they play in when I was a boy. And
four people had to sit at these tables playing Five Up throughout eternity-- couldn't get up,
couldn't do anything.
Now, the thing that made it hell was not a devil with a pitchfork, not a sea of ice or a sea of fire.
But the thing that made it hell was that finally the soul died because he couldn't get any air.
Freedom then is a sense, a feel of option, of choice, of alternatives. And as long as that is kept
alive, it doesn't matter what the context is in which a man lives, and how long that context lasts.
His soul does not rot if he keeps alive-- this sense of option.
He will not finally be invaded by the environment that closes in upon you. This is what I'm
talking about. Now, that means two things. First, it means that I must take responsibility for my
own actions.
Now, hear me, please, hear me. I am responsible for my own actions. It is not an accident, for
instance, that the cherry tree myth about George Washington has persisted as a part of the
mythology of our culture and our country.
I did it with my little hatchet. A little boy, maybe I should have known better. I don't know. But
who cut down the cherry tree? I did it. It is hard for me to learn this, again, because I had two
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sisters, one older and one younger, so that always whenever I did something that caused my
mother to expose me to her violence-[LAUGHTER]
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I could always, in defense of myself, say to her, my older sister made me do it, or I did it to help
my younger sister out. And anything but to take responsibility for my own action, my own deed.
And this is a very critical thing for any people, and particularly for many of us who lived on a
context in which there are 1,000 extenuating circumstances by which we can rationalize our way
out of taking responsibility for what we do.
And who robs me of my right to pick up the tab denies me the grounds of my integrity. Don't
forget it. Responsibility for my own actions. This is the first great dramatic mark of a free man.
And that it is a fellowship church.
The intern, who was working with us, a very brilliant young man from the University of Chicago
Theological Seminary, decided that even though he would be 25 years old two days after the
zero day for registration, that he simply with all conscience could not register.
So he wrote a letter to the President of the United States to the United States Attorney in San
Francisco and somebody else-- I don't know who else-- saying that he wasn't going to do it and
where he would be at 9 o'clock in the morning on the day.
He said to the boy, I was sick at the time. He said, I don't want to do anything that's going to
embarrass the church. You fighting for your life against every kind of odd, and now here I come
with this kind of witness. And it puts a club in anybody's hands to destroy the church. But I've
got to do this. So he was arrested.
And at the hearing, it was suggested that on the second day, he would appear for sentencing, or
whatever the technical term is so that some of the people from our congregation and from the
community and one of the lawyers came to my house to see me and to say, even though you're
sick, if you'll get out of the bed and come down to the federal court and make a plea on behalf of
Bob, I'm sure the judge will mitigate his sentence or suspend his sentence, or whatever it is.
You know what I said? I said if Bob comes here and asks me to do it, I will do it after I tell him
how I feel. And what would I tell him? And I'm not being facetious now. I did not want to rob
him of the privilege of taking responsibility for his deed.
What am I? Me think about the judgment and the rest of it that that I did not want to come
between him and this exercise of a fundamental freedom, which was his, namely, the right to say,
yes, I did it. No, I did not do it.
And he came to see me. And he said, I don't want you to do this. Because if you do this, then you
take all the-- he uses a very nice word, all the so and so and so out of my witness.
[LAUGHTER]
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I want to witness. And now you're trying-- they want you to come to stand between me and this
kind of responsibility. And I don't want you to do it. Now, this is what I'm talking about. You
may agree or disagree. That's irrelevant.
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But the important thing is one of the signs of freedom is the willingness to take responsibility for
what you do. Now there may be 1,000 extenuating circumstances that you can bring into play.
There are all kinds of things.
But in the last analysis, whatever may be the extenuating circumstance, it is you who did the
deeds. Now, one more little step, and you very patient. The second is that I am responsible for
my reactions to the events of my life.
Now, hear me please, because it just isn't fair if you don't hear. I mean, fair to life, not to you. I
am not only responsible for my own actions, you see. But I am responsible for my reactions to
the events of my life.
We are surrounded by many impersonal forces. The impersonal world of nature, an impersonal
social economic order that impinges upon us all the time, influencing us, determining various
things in which we are helpless.
Now, let me illustrate. When we lived in Overland, Ohio, we were halfway or midway between
Chicago and New York. And Ms. Summer and I discovered that we had many friends that we
didn't know about, because 1 o'clock in the morning or 12 o'clock, the telephone would ring.
And I was just passing through Overland from Chicago. And I remember that you lived here.
And I'd just like to say hello. Well, 2 o'clock in the morning to say hello, it meant that they
wanted a bed and something to eat.
So then one afternoon, someone decided she'd make one of her famous cakes that involved eight
or nine eggs, some infinite number of eggs like that. And I bought eggs from cross the street. It'd
been the right store. And sure enough, about midnight, some people came.
And we made scrambled eggs and bacon and toast and put them to bed. Well, she used the tone
to bake the cake. So about 9 o'clock in this morning, I went across the street to Billy Wright's
store to get a dozen eggs, and it cost me $0.06 more a dozen.
Now, from the afternoon to that morning, I'd been as kind to my wife as I knew how. I'd been as
decent a human being as I could muster. But that had nothing to do with it. A vast impersonal
economic order held me in its grip.
And I was a victim, having nothing to do with the quality of my character, the goodness of my
heart, or the means of my spirit. If I got the eggs, I would have to pay $0.04 more a dozen. Now,
this is what I'm talking about-- the impersonal social order.
And the same thing is true with the impersonal world of nature. I was in a snowstorm in Western
New York. And I got off the inner urban at the wrong place. And when I stepped out, and snow
came up to my waist-- and I realized that nobody was there to meet me.
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And so I'd gotten off at the wrong place and was snowing hard. I couldn't see my way. But I
knew that the stop for the inner urban was at a cross street. It would have to be make any sense.
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So I started walking, trudging, really, not walking. And the snow was coming down. I could just
see out a little in front of me. And first, I kept saying, now, be calm, don't get nervous. But it
kept building and building.
And I began to hallucinate. I thought I heard voices. And then I thought I was going to die. I was
going to freeze to death in that snow, and nobody would find me. Then I began talking to the
blizzard.
[LAUGHS]
Now, I said I'm a young man, just at the beginning of my career. And I don't want to die. So find
some extenuating something to let me see tomorrow. But the blizzard just kept on blizzarding. It
had no idea that I was there.
Now, this is what I'm talking about. Every human being in some sense is a victim to
circumstances, to forces over which he has no control and to which there is no response on the
part of these impersonal thing to his will, however, good it is, however, holy it is.
But the free man-- the free man can determine how he will react to the forces that are not
responsive to his will, however, good his will is. This is the mark of a free man. I don't have to
say yes or no. I reserve the integrity of my own sense of freedom against the forces.
And not only that, something is released in me when I do that. A new dimension of creative
energy that begins to well up inside of me that enables me to do a very important thing to
transform the spear of frustration into a shaft of light.
This is a gift of God to the human spirit. That x, that residue that bottoms the pulsing energy of
the human spirit. Once this is felt, the miracle takes place. And what is the miracle of the free
man? He discovers that he can stand anything that life can do to him.
And when the time comes, and he must die, he goes down to the grave with a shout-- a shout-- a
shout. This is our gift that marks us as children of God. Give me the strength to be free and to
endure the burden of freedom and the loneliness of those without chains.
This is the mark on the forehead that God places on his children. And I will not betray this gift of
himself to me by turning it down. Give me the strength to be free and to endure the burden of
freedom and the loneliness of those without chains.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
7
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The Search for Meaning (1975, Second Christian Church, Indianapolis, IN)
Description
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In this series about the Search for Meaning, Thurman discusses approaches to finding meaning in things to which we choose to devote our lives and energy through the experiences of self, freedom, and love.
Date
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1975
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Descriptions by ShaCarolyn Halyard
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<iframe width="100%" height="820" frameborder="0" src="/files/players/394-275_A.html" ></iframe>
Internal Notes
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Not sure about exact location - GL 5/14/19
Time Period
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1970s
Original Title
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The Search for Meaning in the Experience of Freedom (III) (Indianapolis), 1975 Nov 4
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Second Christian Church, Indianapolis, Indiana
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394-275_A
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Thurman, Howard
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The Search for Meaning in the Experience of Freedom (III), 1975 November 4
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1975-11-04
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<a href="http://pid.emory.edu/ark:/25593/rp8k9">MSS 394</a>
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Description
An account of the resource
In this third lecture in the Search for Meaning, Howard Thurman discusses freedom as it relates to personal accountability. Thurman defines freedom as the ability to stand in the present that ultimately determines the future. Freedom is also defined as having a sense of option and alternative. It is the freedom of choice that keeps our soul alive. Additionally, it is our desire and ability to take responsibility for our deeds despite extenuating circumstances that give us true liberation.
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Description by ShaCarolyn Halyard
choice
freedom
liberty
meaning
option
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394-037_A.mp3
[MUSIC PLAYING]
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Our lesson is the eighth Psalm. Oh Lord our Lord, how excellent is Thy name in all the Earth,
who has set thy glory above the heavens. Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast Thou
ordained strength because of Thine enemies that though mightest still the Enemy and the
Avenger.
When I consider Thy heavens, the work of Thy fingers, the moon and the stars which Thou hast
ordained, what is man that Thou art mindful of him, and the son of man that Thou visitest him?
For Thou hast made him a little lower than God and hast crowned him with glory and honor.
Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of Thy hands. Thou hast put all things under
his feet, all sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field, the fowl of the air, and the fish of the
sea, and whatsoever passes through the paths of the sea. Oh Lord our Lord, how excellent is Thy
name in all the Earth.
[ORGAN MUSIC PLAYING]
How precious also are Thy thoughts unto me, oh God. How great is the sum of them. If I should
count them, they are more in number than the sand. When I awake, I am still with Thee. Search
me, oh God, and know my heart. Try me and know my thoughts, and see if there be any wicked
way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.
As a background for our thinking together about the freedom of the human spirit, will you hold
in mind the song, which was read as our morning's lesson? Particularly the line which says, Thou
hast made him but little lower than God. And then, these lines from a contemporary poet.
Give me the courage to live, really live, not merely exist, live dangerously, scorning risk, live
honestly, daring the truth, particularly the truth of myself, live resiliently, ever changing, evergrowing, ever adapting, enduring the pain of change as though 'twere the travel of birth. Give me
the courage to live. Give me the strength to be free and to endure the burden of freedom and the
loneliness of those without chains. Let me not be trapped by success, not by failure, nor pleasure,
nor grief, nor by malice, nor praise, nor remorse.
Give me the courage to go on, facing all that waits on the way, going eagerly, joyously on, and
paying my way as I go without anger, or fear, or regret, spending my life to the full, head high,
spirit winged like a god, on, on till the shadows draw close. Then, even when darkness shuts
down and I go out alone as I came, naked and blind as I came, even then, gracious God, hear my
prayer. Give me the courage to live.
The lines which I select from this give me the strength to be free and to endure the burden of
freedom and the loneliness of those without chains. Give me the strength to be free and to endure
the burden of freedom and the loneliness of those without chains. Man is a space-binder and a
time-binder.
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As a space-binder, man is involved in a context of relationships. He is related to forces within his
environment, and to individuals, and to systems, and to orders. And it is in this area that man
experiences liberty, for he is involved with forces and powers that can define and determine his
location, his movement often. These are external privileges, rights, granted to him or maybe
taken away from him. This is the area in which man, the space binder, experiences liberty as
distinguished from freedom.
But man is also a time-binder. There is a dimension of his personality that transcends all of the
time-space things that bind and hold him. There is an aspect of his personality that is never quite
contained and anything that he may be doing or experiencing at any given moment in time.
There's a sense in which man is always the observer of himself, the participant in the deeds in
which he's involved.
It is in this sense that man, in my thought, experiences freedom, for freedom has to do with the
final and ultimate power of veto and certification over one's own life. It is deep in the inward
parts, where a man ultimately and finally says, yes, or no and makes it stick. It is the total
response of the personality to the event, but it is always somewhat outside of the event and never
quite contained in it.
And because I think that freedom has to do with the total response of the individual to the
experiences of his life, to me, freedom essentially is a spiritual experience. And in the language
of religion, freedom is a manifestation of the givenness of God in the life of man. It is the
awareness by which and through which the creator of life realizes himself in the individual.
Freedom, therefore, cannot be given, nor can it be taken away. It does not touch the final
initiative that an individual must hold over his own life. And therefore, I make this passing
distinction between liberty and freedom for the purposes of our discussion.
Freedom in the sense in which I am thinking of it, then, expresses itself in two fundamentally
authentic manifestations of responsibility. There is the responsibility which the individual has for
his own actions. And that is to say that a man standing in his place can so act in the present as to
influence, determine, and often shape the future, his future, that there is a tight critical of
continuity between the doer and the results of the deed. And this is true whether there is
innocence with reference to the act or not. The relentless logic of antecedent and consequence
binds the doer and the deed.
And therefore, freedom means, in this sense, the ability and the willingness to accept and to take
responsibility for one's actions. When I was a boy, I had two sisters. One was older and one was
younger, and I was, therefore, in the middle. And I found it a very convenient place to be
because whenever my mother reprimanded me for doing something, I could always say that I did
it to help my little sister out, or I did it because my older sister made me.
[LAUGHTER]
I did not ever have the sense of responsibility for my own action. There is something very
tyrannical about this, as if an individual were caught in a vast, comprehensive process that
squeezes him closer and closer, until at last he and his deed are brought face to face. It is this is
that the master means, I think, when he talks about the climax of human history. It's a very
melodramatic picture. You may recall.
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It is the end of the age, and all the peoples of the Earth are gathered together, and there is a king
who is seated on the throne as an oriental despot. The sheep are to his right, and the goats are to
his left. But the interesting thing is it is not the arbitrary will, judgment, or insistence of the judge
that determines who goes to the right or to the left. No, it is the deeds of a man that send him to
the right or to the left.
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I was sick, and you would not visit me. I was hungry, and you gave me no food to eat. I was
naked, and you would not restore my self-respect by giving me clothes to wear. I was
imprisoned, and you passed me by, and you thought you were doing it to tired, weary, skinned,
and cast down human beings.
No, you were doing it to the deepest, most fundamental, most articulate thing in you and in the
universe. You did it unto Me, and you did it unto yourself. And the story of your life, this is your
judgement. Freedom, then, means the ability so to act at any given moment in time as to
influence, shape, determine the future with reference to you and the deed.
There is a second kind of authentic responsibility, which is involved here, and it is different from
responsibility for one's own actions. It is the responsibility for one's reactions to the experiences
of one's life, and this is a very cutting manifestation of the very idiom of freedom, for it says that
there is always the possibility of maintaining a sense of option, a sense of alternatives, as one
deals with the experiences and encounters of life. And perhaps, this sense of option, this sense of
alternative, is the most commonplace and perhaps the most authentic expression of freedom.
And mark you, I do not say that that freedom, in my thinking, means of necessity the opting of
the option. I'm am not saying that freedom is defined in terms of whether or not at any given
moment in time a man is able to opt the option, to grasp a viable alternative in the squeeze in
which he is found. I am not saying this. But I'm saying that the sense, the feel, of alternatives, the
feel for options, the awareness of the riding, the always riding possibility, of alternative options,
this is the genius of freedom.
One of the most dramatic sermons that I heard as a boy was delivered by a man who was, in our
community, a traveling evangelist. He went around preaching at various churches. And in this
particular sermon, he talked about a visit that he made to hell. He wasn't living there-[LAUGHTER]
--but he was given a personally conducted tour through hell. And in that far off time in the past,
there were two major sins in our community. One was dancing, and the other was playing cards.
Now, that may date me even beyond the recall of any history, but-[LAUGHTER]
So that when he went to hell, the first place to which he was carried was a huge dance hall. And
in this dance hall, there were millions and millions of people dancing, and they had to dance
forever and ever and with the same partner.
[LAUGHTER]
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There was all options exhausted. This was the thing that made it hell. No forked devil, no fire
and brimstone, no lake of ice, no excruciating agony always fired by an undying remorse-- no,
just caught and held in the terrible grapple of the absence of any alternative that finally was
internalized by the individual, so that the sense of options died, died, died.
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Now, mark you, I do not say that freedom means the ability to opt the option. I repeat it. But
there is a dimension of the human spirit that seems to me to stand outside of all that is eventful,
that that is never quite completely internalized, and I think this is why tyrants are always finally
overthrown. Because there is a vacuum, as it were, at the very center of personality that holds
against the internalizing of whatever may be the events, the experiences, through which one may
be passing at any given moment.
There is an area that is always finally out of reach of the event, and it is this, this area, that holds
intention always, the possibility of an alternative. And this is the threat to the tyrant. He cannot
ever quite reach into this central core where something holds against all that he would do. And
this whole intention, as I say, the sense of alternatives.
And as long as there is a sense of option, as long as there is a sense of alternatives, then the
individual is isolated against any slow, or sudden, or graphic in the tyranny of circumstance.
Now, this is very binding in terms of one's personal life. There is a sense in which we are all
victims, victims of circumstances over which we are unable to exercise any control. Sudden
radical change, and what may be at any moment the operation of fate-- and an individual thus
caught and thus victimized has one area that is uniquely his and that can never be taken away
from him.
He may give it up, perhaps, but it cannot be taken away from him. And that is that he and he
alone can decide how he will deal with the inevitable circumstances of his life. He may not be
able to change it. All possible creative remedies for relief may exhaust themselves. One by one,
he may witness the closing of his doors. And there is no power available to him by which he may
seek help to alter what seems to be the relentless movement of antecedent and consequence in his
life.
But there is one creative margin left always. He can give or withhold his sanction. He can
reserve some tiny area, perhaps, in which his will may function as the will of the Creator of life.
You remember in Oedipus the Fates had done their work, and he had then assigned the judgment,
the fact that he did not know fully what he was doing? He was not aware of who he was, in a
sense, and certainly who his mother was, but all these considerations are beside the point. He had
acted, and he had set in motion a process that must run itself out.
And he was caught in the logic of that process. So he accepts his fate. But just before he is
banished into the wilderness-- do you remember?-- he goes back into the palace. And then, if one
listens very carefully, one hears a groan, and then one sees Oedipus staggering out of the doors
of the palace, finding his way down the steps to go out into the wilderness, but there's a
difference.
I have no choice about the acceptance of the fate. I am caught and trapped by this, but there is
left still for me a margin of initiative, which is the hallmark of the free spirit. With my own
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hands, I can pluck my eyeballs out, and affirm my right to be myself under this terrible
judgement.
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Now, there is this margin always available. In thinking about our days here at this church, I ran
across something written many years ago by Dr. Holmes, and it has profound bearing on the
heart of what I'm saying and this second aspect of our discussion. It has to do with the war of that
period, and these other words-If any man or boy in this church answers the call to arms, I shall bless him as he marches to the
front. When he lies in the trenches, or watches on the lonely sentinel post, or fights in the charge,
I shall follow him with my prayers. If he is brought back dead from hospital or battlefield, I shall
bury him with all the honors, not of war, but of religion. He will have obeyed his conscience and
thus performed his whole duty as a man.
But I also have a conscience, and that conscience I also must obey. When, therefore, there comes
a call for volunteers, I shall have to refuse to heed. When there is an enrollment of citizens for
military purposes, I shall have to refuse to register.
When, or if, the system of conscription is adopted, I shall have to decline to serve. If this means a
fine, I will pay my fine. If this means imprisonment, I will serve my term. If this means
persecution, I will carry my cross. No order of president or governor, no law of nation or state,
no loss of reputation, freedom, or life will persuade me or force me to this business of killing.
On this issue, for me at least, there is no compromise. Mistaken, foolish, fanatical I may be. I
will not deny the charge. But false to my own soul, I will not be.
Therefore, here I stand. God help me. I cannot do other.
Freedom means to hold the power of veto and certification finally over your own life. It means to
hold the initiative over your own life, and this is always a viable alternative if a man does not
internalize the events and the circumstances of his life. And even when this has happened, he still
has a margin in which he can yet determine how he will react to the events of his life over which
he is unable to exercise any control.
I will not be forced by the events of my life to say, "yes" or "no." I will decide and make it stick.
This is the mark of the free spirit.
Era of the kingdom 'neath the skies, often he falls, yet falls to rise, stumbling, bleeding, beaten
back, holding still to his upper track, playing his part in creation's plan, God-like in image, this is
man. Give me the strength to be free, free, and to endure the burden of freedom, and the
loneliness of those without chains. Let us pray.
Our words have been said, and that our feet are the broken lances of our thoughts, will Thou
accept all of our offering and transform it into that which is needful for our peace? And for us,
our Father, this is enough.
[ORGAN MUSIC PLAYING]
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(SINGING) Hold fast to dreams.
(SINGING) Hold fast to dreams. For if dreams die, life is a broken-winged bird. that cannot fly.
(SINGING) Hold fast to dreams.
(SINGING) Hold fast to dreams.
(SINGING) For when dreams go, life is a barren field frozen with snow.
(SINGING) Hold fast to dreams.
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(SINGING) Hold fast to dreams.
�
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What Shall I Do With My Life? (1971, New York Community Church, New York, NY)
Description
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In this series, Thurman discusses the concepts of freedom in the actions of an individual, how freedom is negotiated in a fluid world of logic, time, and natural order, and how communities can act in freedom.
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1971
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Descriptions by ShaCarolyn Halyard
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<iframe width="100%" height="820" frameborder="0" src="/files/players/394-037_A.html" ></iframe>
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New York Community Church, New York City, New York
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1970s
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What Shall I Do with My Life (I): Freedom of the Human Spirit (New York Community Church, NYC), 1971 Mar 7
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394-037_A
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Thurman, Howard
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What Shall I Do with My Life, Part 1: Freedom of the Human Spirit, 1971 March 7
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1971-03-07
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<a href="http://pid.emory.edu/ark:/25593/rp8k9">MSS 394</a>
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audio
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<a href="http://pitts.emory.edu/">Pitts Theology Library, Emory University</a>
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GEOMETRYCOLLECTION(POINT(-8235591.761571 4975207.9418671))
Description
An account of the resource
Here Thurman highlights the spiritual experience of freedom. The implications of freedom as it relates to the manifestation of God and the awareness of God realized in the individual are also discussed. Just as there is a responsibility in freedom for our actions that determine, shape, and influence the future; there is also a responsibility for one’s reactions to life’s experiences. The most authentic expression of freedom is the endless possibilities of choice. Freedom is the power to accept or reject, it is the power to take initiative over one’s own life.
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Description by ShaCarolyn Halyard
choice
freedom
God
-
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6c8f7c3f3b4fae8a3736cd918052a569
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394-013_A.mp3
[MUSIC PLAYING]
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We have turned aside from the tasks and the duties and the responsibilities which involve us day
after day to present ourselves with as much confidence and faith as we can muster-- hoping that
in Thy presence and in the great quietness of this waiting moment, we might find the measure of
deepened inner peace, without which the enterprise of our private lives cannot be fulfilled. We
share with Thy all of the meaning that we have been able to garner out of the days of our living.
We see as if by a flash of blinding light, the meaning of some things which we have done since
last we were here together-- the hasty word the careless utterance, the deliberate act by which
another was injured or confused, the decision to do what, even at the time of the decision, we felt
was not either the right thing or the thing which we were willing to back with our lives.
All of these things crowding upon us our Father to be sure that what we say in Thy presence and
what we feel and in Thy presence will be honest and clear and sincere. As we look at this aspect
of our lives, there is only one moving request which we make. And that is for forgiveness,
forgiveness for the sin, for the wrong act, for the bad deed, forgiveness our Father.
We do not know all together what it is that we want beyond this. We see our lives, the goals
which we have set for ourselves, and as we wait now in the quietness, and these goals are
weighted and held in tender balance before Thy scrutiny and Thy caring, we see them in a new
light. And we trust that somehow as we move into the tasks that await us, the radiance which we
sense now will cast a long glow to guide us in tomorrow's darkness.
We're mindful also of all kinds need in the world, those needs which are close at hand and about
which we have had some superficial concern. We have met them casually out of the richness of
our own sense of surplus. There are those other needs at which we have not dared to look, our
Father, because we fear what our response to such needs might make us do or become.
We might find all of the careful plans of our lives upset and the goals which we have put in focus
thrown out of line or discarded. Because as we look into the depths of certain needs, we cannot
ever be ourselves in happiness and peace again. And this is too costly for us. And yet, our Father,
as we wait here, these needs move before us. We hear the cry anguish of the destitute, of the
hungry, of the hopeless, of the despairing.
And we cannot be deaf. But we don't know what to do. We don't know how to give and not
destroy ourselves. Oh God, deal with our disorder with redemptive tenderness so that we as we
live tomorrow and tomorrow may not be ashamed of Thy grace that has made our lives move in
such tranquil places
These are all the words we have. Take them, and let them say to Thy the words of our heart and
our spirit. Oh God, merciful God, merciful God.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
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Quests of the human spirit as background for laying foundation for our thinking together for the
next few weeks. Will you listen to these words? "A ceaseless search like the ebb and flow of
oceans marks all man's days. For him, no rest, no rest. The fever in the blood is answer to the
temper of the mind. When time was young, just learning how to walk, it placed its stamp on a
single cell, which gave a slant to all that lives today or yesterday, no matter when.
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A ceaseless search like the ebb and flow of oceans marks all man's day. Is there some point,
some place of rest to bring an end to all man's quest? Something that does not feel? Something
that lasts beyond all things that pass when the shadows thicken and the lights grow dim? Some
worldly hope that gives retreat from all the winds that beat upon the world? Some sured
attachment to another's life that stands secure against all change of mind or heart? Some private
dream where only dwells the purest secrets of desire?
All these must fade. All these must pass away. There is a sense of wholeness at the core of man
that must abound in all he does, that marks with reverences his every step, that has its sway when
all else fails, that wearies out all evil things, that warms the depths of frozen fears, making
friends of foe, making love of hate, and last beyond the living and the dead, beyond the goals of
peace and the ends of war. This man seeks through all these years to be complete and of one
piece within, without."
And then this from Robert Bridges. "Man born of desire cometh out of the night, a wondering
spark of fire. He's striveth to know, to unravel the mind. He wills to adore. He dreameth of
beauty. He seek to create fair and fair to vanquish his fate, such is man."
I begin this morning by undertaking to lay the foundation for our thinking about the quests of the
human spirit. To quest is to seek out, to try, to find. It is to search. It is to bring into focus a goal
or a purpose and to put at the disposal of such a goal or purpose, the cumulative resources of
one's life.
It is in the very nature then of the case that a quest is a creative act. It began there. It is creative
because when it is initiated, the individual has to adjudicate between possible alternatives. He
has to make up his mind by a series of efforts, which result in the elimination of those things
which present themselves as worthy of the questing.
But for reasons that may be personal and private and intimate, they are rejected. And the one
thing is lifted out above all the rest. It is a creative act then in the first place because it involves a
decision of the mind and the will. It is creative act in the second place because once the choice is
made, once the object of the quest is selected, then the resources of the individual, slowly
sometimes and sometimes dramatically, are organized and made available to the individual as the
raw materials of the energy which he needs in order to pursue the quest.
And this particular act on the part of the mind, of the personality is important because of what it
suggests about how man is put together in the first place. He has memories. And these memories
at some far off time in the history of man were not memories as we know them.
They were impulses shooting over the nerves, registering their impact as the individual
encountered various aspects of his environment, reacting to various situations. And as these
became cumulative, the mind then began to how a sense of the history of man's experience with
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life so that at any particular moment, at levels of which he is aware and at levels of which he is
not aware, all the past is present, present.
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And this means, you see, that what we are saying when we say that a man is conscious is that he
is aware of the past as a part of the living stuff of the present so that when he brings to bear the
resources of his personality in an effort to make it possible for him to realize his quest, what he is
really doing is actualizing his potential. What he is really doing is putting at the disposal of a
specific act or a specific goal, the cumulative resources of all of his life.
Now the goals, the objects of our quest very often are not on our own. How can I say this?
Sometimes, they are a reflection of what we think we ought to want. Sometimes, they are
reflection not of what we really want to see. But there are reflections on our love for someone
whose desire for us we embrace and act upon it as if it were our own.
We see this very often vocationally. Sometimes you talk with a man who is in the last stages of
his personal equipment for the realization of a quest which will be for him an enduring one
vocationally.
And he says, I don't think I've ever really wanted to be a doctor. I come from a family of doctors.
My father is a doctor, my grandfather is a doctor, my great uncle is a doctor. And ever since I
was born, I have heard my parents talk about the fact that I would carry on where my father left
off.
Or I would some day be so equipped that I will be able to join my father in this quest. So that out
of love, I react. And I still find that at the end that much of the resources of my life are not at the
disposal of that which I have selected as the object of my quest.
So I may go on and become, let us say, a very good doctor, a very worthy doctor, an excellent
healer of diseases if that is how the vocation is defined. And yet, something deep within me
remains untouched. And my mind is in it. But my heart refuses.
Now the quest of the human spirit about which I shall be thinking the quests of the human spirit,
about which I shall be thinking during these days has to do with those experiences, those goals in
which there is the meeting of the mind and the heart so that the total resourcefulness and the total
resources of the personality may be available to the quest that has been chosen.
Now there's a second aspect of this that belongs in the foundation. And that is that sometimes
and individual is so fortunate-- and I think this is the right word-- that he does not have to go
through the experience of making up his mind, of making the choice.
It is as if something-- I don't quite know how to put this-- but outside of him seems to lay hold on
him. And he doesn't know when he knew. The only thing he does know is that he knows that
through success and failure, through trial and error, this is the thing that he must do.
If I may be personal about this, I remember when I was a high school boy. At the end of my first
year in high school, I went to a conference in North Carolina. It was a conference of the student
conference of the YMCA. The first night I was there, there was a vesper service.
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I sat on the side of a hill. It was an outdoor service. Everybody was sitting on one side of the hill.
I said over by myself. I was a stranger, didn't know anyone. So I sat alone in the twilight, the
long twilight.
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And I listened to a man make a speech. I don't know what he talked about now. I don't know
what he said. But as I listened to him, I knew what would be the area and the meaning of my life
quest.
I did not know in terms of a bill of particulars. I could not spell it out in terms of precise goals.
But I knew more deeply than I understood.
The three or four months after that I wrote the man a letter telling him about my experience that
night. And he answered-- I shall always remember this-- two pages single spaced. It was the first
type-written letter that I had ever received. And I carried this letter in my pocket. And you will
be embarrassed-- I mean, I should be embarrassed, I suppose, to say it.
But I carried it in my pocket to the rest of my school and for four years in college. I changed
envelopes I don't know how many times- but the letter was there. It served as a gentle reminder
of what I had felt. But it was years after before the feeling that I sensed that night worked itself
up into the region of my deliberations and my choosings. And sometimes that happens.
All of this is to say that the quest is a creative thing. And sometimes, it is the response of the
individual. Sometimes, it is the response of the mind based upon selections. And then there
something of the personality are organized and put at the disposal of the thing that is held at dead
center in the mind.
Now there is something else that needs to be said. This possibility, the possibility of quest, the
miracle of being able to seek is writted, it seems to me, in the very nature of life. For you see, if
life is fixed, if life is finished, if life is complete, if life is contained in a continuum that is
essentially static, then the possibility of seeking, the possibility of bringing to bear upon a goal
the resources of the personality so that as the individual begins to actualize his potential and
becomes himself more and more, the living embodiment of that for which he is questing, all of
this is an impossibility if life itself is not fluid, creative, dynamic.
Now if it is true that life is fluid and creative and dynamic, then it becomes a reasonable thing to
say that the time and the place of a man's life is time and the place of his body. But the meaning
of a man's life is as eternal and as significant. As with all of him, he wills to make it.
Now let me repeat this. If life is dynamic, fluid, then it is a reasonable thing to say that the time
and the place of a man's life is the time and place of his body. But the significance, the meaning
of his life can be as eternal and as creative. As with all of him, he wills choose to make it.
Therefore, when a man quests and in his quest he honors a deep and insatiable hunger of his
spirit and in response to that hunger, he more and more begins to feed it with all the raw
materials of his stuff, then the hunger has to be honored by life, and I think by God. So the
Master says if you hunger, hunger, hunger, if you thirst, thirst for righteousness.
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This is the nature of life that you will be filled, that this is the kind of world in which the riding
possibility is always present if a man is able to bring to bear upon, even the stubborn and
unyielding and recalcitrance stuff and contradictory stuff of life that which will not be denied, he
will find. I wonder if you believe this.
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I do not mean some casual whim, some impulse that grows out of something that does not reach
down deep in me. For you know it may be that I cannot seek for something that I do not have
already. This may be it.
So a man said to the Master, "will please help my son? There are times when he seems to be
possessed. And he throws himself on the floor and he writhes as a madman."
And the Master said, do you believe this? Do you mean that anything can happen as a result of
what you are asking me to do? Is this the kind of world in which it is possible for a quest like that
fundamentally to be honored? If you believe this, then it will be.
And the man said, oh yes. I believe. Help Thou, my unbelief. Oh yes, I have faith. And it is the
faith in me that keeps pushing me for more of itself. So it may be that seeking and finding,
questing and finding are one in the same thing, that what I hunger for grows out of what I am
aware of as the most real thing in me already.
And it is that multiplies itself, multiplies itself until I am consumed by it, and it is consumed by
me. The time and the place of a man's life is the time and place of his body. But the meaning of a
man's life is as the eternal and as significant. As with all of him, he wills to make it. And we
shall see in the days that follow what this means.
Walk beside us, our Father. And leave us not alone either to strength or our weaknesses. But
yield to us what we need in order that we may be that which is Thy dream for us.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
(SINGING) Amen Amen, Amen, Amen.
5
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Title
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Quests of the Human Spirit (1962, Marsh Chapel, Boston University, Boston, MA)
Description
An account of the resource
”Quests for the Human Spirit” is an eleven-part lecture series focused on the creative process of self-actualization. Thurman shows how this process centers and affirms a person’s purpose in life. Discussing pursuits like freedom, stability, values, identity, and integrity, he illuminates the importance of questing in identity formation.
Date
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1962
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Descriptions by Dr. Tim Rainey
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<iframe width="100%" height="820" frameborder="0" src="/files/players/394-013_A.html" ></iframe>
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Marsh Chapel, Boston University, Boston, Massachussetts
Time Period
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1960s
Original Title
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Quests of the Human Spirit (I), 1962 Feb 4
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394-013_A
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Thurman, Howard
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1962-02-04
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<a href="http://pid.emory.edu/ark:/25593/rp8k9">MSS 394</a>
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audio
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<a href="http://pitts.emory.edu/">Pitts Theology Library, Emory University</a>
Description
An account of the resource
In his introductory lecture to “Quests for the Human Spirit,” Thurman describes the quest as an act of bringing to focus the purpose of one’s life. Thurman notes that this is a creative work wherein one’s mental resources are organized into the raw materials needed to energize and pursue growth within the human spirit. Choosing between alternatives on the life journey is a matter of mind and heart – resources that drive the quest. Thurman argues that questing is essential to life because it is the quest that actualizes the person who becomes the embodiment of one's striving.
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GEOMETRYCOLLECTION(POINT(-7915565.7490374 5213612.6443988))
Title
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Quests of the Human Spirit, Part 1, 1962 February 4
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Description by Dr. Tim Rainey
actualize
choice
creative act
heart
mind
quest
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394-004_A.mp3
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[SINGING] [INAUDIBLE]
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Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies. Thou annointest my head with
oil. My cup runneth over. Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no
evil, for thou art with me. Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me. Thou leadest me beside still
waters. Thou restoreth my soul.
It is very good to celebrate the goodness of God-- the obvious expressions of his goodness that
sustain our lives in ways that our strength could not quite do; in ways that our minds and
imaginations, even, cannot quite either comprehend or assess. It is good to celebrate the
goodness of God for the obvious manifestations of sustaining grace.
It is good to celebrate the goodness of God for those miraculous manifestations of an intent that
is more than anything that we can quite understand. The ways by which, when we have given up
hope, hope refuses to die. The times when we have exhausted all of our own efforts, and the
thing which we seek has not been found, and then in ways that dazzle the mind, the thing is
found.
The wonderful sense that sins are forgiven, when we know there is, within the grasp of our
understanding, no merit that is worthy of such a sense of relief that we have because a burden
has been lifted, and the guilt that bore us down and hounded us has lost our scent. And we have
escaped from its necessities.
It is very good to celebrate the goodness of God, even at times when we are apt to be overcome
by our own sense of evil visited upon us, even when we are most overcome by the oppressive
mismanagement of the organized life around us. It is so very good to sit together in the quietness
of the congregation, feeling the touch of each other's shoulder side by side, and know that each
of us is surrounded by the goodness, and the tenderness, and the love of God.
Oh, Sabbath rest by Galilee, oh calm of hills above, where Jesus knelt to share with thee the
silence of eternity interpreted by love, drop thy still dues of quietness till all our striving cease.
Take from our souls the strains and stress, and let our ordered lives confess the beauty of thy
peace.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[SINGING] [INAUDIBLE]
When I polish the brazen pan, I hear a creature laugh afar in the gardens of a star. And from his
burning presence run flaming wheels of many a sun. Whoever makes a thing more bright, he is
an angel of all light. When I cleanse this earthen floor, my spirit leaps to see bright garments
trailing over it, a cleanness made by me.
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Purger of all men's thoughts and ways, with labor do I sound thy praise. My work is done for
thee. Whoever makes a thing more bright, he is an angel of the light. Therefore, let me spread
abroad the beautiful cleanness of my God.
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As a background text, which I will not bring into the foreground, I don't think, let us listen to the
words taken from the scripture lesson. If a man slaps you on your cheek, do take it. Do
something. Turn the other one.
Now, an act is an expression of the personality. It is a deed of some sort. And if I may be
forgiven for using a word like this, there are psychosomatic acts. That is, in the presence, for
instance, of some monstrous evil, and as I contemplate the death-defying character of this
iniquity, my reaction may be in terms of protest. Not protest-- in terms of protestation, I might
say, how awful. What a terrible thing. Somebody ought to do something about it.
I let all of my energy be spent in outcry-- in protest of that kind, which gives me, quite certainly,
a feeling that now that I have done this, I have acted. I have done something.
Now, an act on my part is even a response to an action. My act is clued, as it were, by the kind of
deed to which I'm responding. Or my act moves out of the center out of which I am living
without regard to the kind of response that is demanded of me. This is very crucial, and I will
come back to it after another preliminary statement.
There is an element in all action that is irrational. That is to say, when a person acts, it means that
he has finally waited as long as he can. He has exhausted all of the possibilities of pro and con.
He has looked at, but on the other hand, and if I do this or the other. He has weighed and
balanced the thing.
He has waited until all the evidence that he can possibly wait for has come in. And then when he
decides to act, he pulls down the shades and takes the leap.
Now, this is why intellectuals find it so difficult to act. We are disciplined in weighing things.
And when you talk with an intellectual-- and I cast no aspersions on anyone when I use a remark
like that-- it's a good word.
But you see, with the trained mind, we are so disciplined in weighing evidence and then
weighting-- W-E-I-G-H-T-I-N-G-- evidence because we do not want to act irrationally. We do
not want to act out of some sort of emotion. We want to be deliberate.
Now, this is good. But you see, there is something in the mechanics of the intellectual's approach
to life that tends to make him inactive and therefore ineffective because you see, if he takes a
side, he may be prejudiced, you see. And if he's an intellectual, he cannot be prejudiced. He has
to be open-minded, even though some minds that are open perhaps have should be closed awhile
for repairs.
But nevertheless, as long as we insist that the mind must be open all the time, before there's any
action, then this paralyzes action because when I act, it means that in that moment, I have made a
decision. I have taken a side. Have taken a stand in the light of all the data that I could wait for.
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And I hope, you see, that in the light of my act, that each subsequent day will validate the action.
But it may not. Here again, I made thee in error. Every act, then, has as its companion error,
misjudgment a certain element that even may be false.
Pitts Theology Library
Emory University
Now all of this, I take into account when I act. And I hope, you'll see, that all of the new
experience will confirm the validity of the action that I have taken in the light of my accessing of
all of my experience up to date.
Now, if I'm lazy as to my mind, or if I am so full of anxiety, or fear, or [INAUDIBLE], that I
refrain from taking into account all of the available data in the light of which I want to make up
my mind, then the chances of my error are greatly multiplied. My responsibility, therefore, is to
act not only out of the best judgment that I have, but my responsibility is to act out of the center
out of which I live so that with my act will go the commitment of my life.
My life backs my act if my act springs out of the center out of which I live. But if my act springs
out of how I react to your act, if you-- and I think this is the insight that the Master's working on
here, much of which I do not understand, so I will not pretend anything. If a man is angry with
you, and you react to him out of his anger exercised towards you, then it means that you may be
reacting to him out of something other than your center. And the initiative over your own act is
now given up into the hands of someone else.
If, for instance, you and I are competitors, and the competition as we move down to the line is
pretty close, as was the last election, for instance-- just so that you would know what I mean-- if
I knew what I could say to you-- now, listen very carefully. If I knew what I could say to you
that would make you react not out of your center but out of your anger, out of your temper, then I
would know that if my center was in competition with your center, and I could make you react
out of something other than your center, I could defeat you.
Any person who is able to determine how you feel on the inside has in his hands your thermostat.
And all he needs to do is to manipulate it and give you a temperature. And when he does, you are
at his mercy. This is what the old saying means that, those whom the gods would destroy, they
first make mad because then they start reacting to life out of something other than the core out of
which they live.
Now, the discipline of act is to brood over all of the manifestations of my deeds, bringing them
more and more in line with the central center and commitment of my life so that there will be, in
the act, the integrity of the self.
Now, when you do this-- when you do it-- it means then that you take the responsibility for your
reactions to all the things that happen to you-- not only your responsibility for your actions,
which you initiate, but your responsibility for your reaction to the things that are initiated in
other people. And these things move towards you. And when they do, you must deal with them.
And you may deal with them on their own terms, or you may deal with them in terms of the
center out of which you live and move and think.
Now, if I may illustrate it very simply, in the conversation that I had some 25 years ago, when I
was in India-- a conversation with Mr. Gandhi-- and I asked him a very simple question at the
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end of our talks. How did it happen that all of your activities-- on behalf of nonparticipation, so
forth, on behalf of ahimsa-- why did all of these activities fail of their objective?
Pitts Theology Library
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And his answer, briefly, was this-- that a creative idea such as ahimsa-- or non-cooperation, or
nonviolence, or whatever that would we wish to use-- is dependent, as far as masses of people
are concerned, upon the way in which each individual is able to react to this ethical demand. And
I've found that it is getting out of hand, and so I had to demonstrate what I meant by acting out of
your center.
And he said, the first thing I did was to adopt into my family an untouchable. I'm a caste Hindu,
he said, but I adopted into my family an untouchable girl. And I said to all caste Hindus, this is
what I mean by the act that I've been talking about. And the second thing I did-- I changed the
name. I redefined the character, in terms of the name, you see, of the untouchables.
This is what we do during war. This is what he did. During war, we give the country against
which we are fighting a different name. We give them a name that reads them out of the human
race. Now once we give them such a name, then we can do anything to them we wish to without
any moral violence to ourselves.
This is convenient. That's why some people cannot tell you what they think of you until they lose
their temper. Then, you see, they do not have moral responsibility for the act.
Now, so he said, I will do just the opposite. I will call the untouchables not untouchables not
sutras, but I will call them harijens. Now, harijens is a combination Hindi word which means
child of God.
Now he said, if I call them a child of God, then every time a caste Hindu refers to an untouchable
as a child of God, if he keep this up, finally, there will be created within him the kind of moral
crisis that cannot be altered until he changes his attitude towards them in keeping with this new
shift, even in terminology.
Now, he said, if this happens, then the first step on the road to peace in our land will be that the
untouchable, in the light of the thing that he just described, would become a member of good
standing in Hinduism so that no longer will the shadow of an untouchable that falls across the
road on which a temple resides will contaminate it, and so forth and so on.
Now, all of this is to say that the discipline of the act comes in the degree to which the individual
is able to bring the judgment of his innermost center to bear upon the deed which he performed.
Are you deeds out of character as far as the core out of which you live? Or are they in character?
If a man slaps you on one cheek, don't take it lying down and acquiescent like some craven
thing. No. Keep the initiative in your own spirit. Turn the other cheek. Do something.
And in so doing, you force him to compete with your intent because you refuse to compete with
his deeds. And this is the difference. It is no easy way, and I do not pretend to understand all that
it means or its ramifications. But this is the commitment of the human being of good will in this
year our Lord 1960.
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Forgive us, our Father, for then sins which we muster and accumulate like a great shadow
obscuring thy vision from our spirits. Walk beside us as we journey and as we separate one from
the other. And grant unto us thy peace, for this, above all else, oh God, we need, or we perish.
Pitts Theology Library
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[MUSIC PLAYING]
5
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Disciplines of the Spirit (1960, Marsh Chapel, Boston University, Boston, MA)
Description
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In this 8-part series, Thurman discusses a variety of topics related to the disciplines of the spirit, including growth, personal stability, commitment, dedication, actions, dualism, and redemption.
Date
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1960
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Descriptions by ShaCarolyn Halyard
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<iframe width="100%" height="820" frameborder="0" src="/files/players/394-004_A.html" ></iframe>
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Marsh Chapel, Boston University, Boston, Massachussetts
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1960s
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Disciplines of the Spirit VII: The Discipline of the Act, 1960 Nov 27
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394-004_A
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Thurman, Howard
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Disciplines of the Spirit, Part 7: The Discipline of the Act, 1960 November 27
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1960-11-27
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<a href="http://pid.emory.edu/ark:/25593/rp8k9">MSS 394</a>
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audio
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<a href="http://pitts.emory.edu/">Pitts Theology Library, Emory University</a>
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<a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/"><img style="border-width:0;" src="https://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc/4.0/80x15.png" alt="80x15.png" /></a><br />This work is licensed under a <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/">Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International License</a>. 2019.
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GEOMETRYCOLLECTION(POINT(-7915565.7490374 5213612.6443988))
Description
An account of the resource
In this seventh lecture in the Discipline of the Spirit series, Thurman uses Matthew 5:39 as a framework for discipline as it relates to our decision to act. Thurman reminds listeners of the responsibility to act or react in integrity centered around core values as we are responsible for the actions we initiate as well as the reactions we initiate in other people. One must always be careful when deciding to act lest our deeds are out of character with our core beliefs.
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Description by ShaCarolyn Halyard
action
choice
dilemma
discipline
forgiveness
Ghandi