1 10 5 https://thurman.pitts.emory.edu/files/original/923fc104fe15284aaee2aa8f7b75a4c7.pdf 5a978121bc8f5c19c78df7d06b904fa9 PDF Text Text Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu 394-698_A.mp3 Pitts Theology Library Emory University First of all, I appreciate your concern, because it is also my concern. I have two or three things to say about it. The first is that I have long since abandoned any hope that from the institutional arrangement, whether it's church, or corporation, or any of these things, the initiative for the changing of the social order will take place. I don't have much confidence in that myself. I think, however, that number one, that each person-- and I speak now for [INAUDIBLE]. Each person has to select where he or she will take his or her stand, and give the witness of his life in terms of his faith and his dream about the kind of world in which he would like to live. It has meant, for me, a very difficult and strenuous kind of discipline and exercise, because there is nothing in my history that gives me a great deal of confidence in the fact that those who control the vast impersonal operations of the social order can take into account my needs as a person who was born and lived primarily as an outsider in American society. So one of the first issues that I have to face-- and I'm choosing to give my personal testimony to your comment-- when I was an undergraduate in Atlanta, Georgia, and I was looking around desperately for something that would enable me to immunize my inside against what, to me, were the difficult and painful aspects of my own environment. I heard about the Fellowship of Reconciliation. I never heard of it before, but a man came to our college and made a chapel talk about it. I never thought much about peace and war and all the rest of it. But I joined the FoR in my sophomore year in college, because I found in it something that would enable me to survive in Atlanta, Georgia. And I had to make a choice. And for me, it was a very critical choice. Where should I make the weight of my thumb felt most effective in terms of the kind of world in which the thought of things of which you speak and which we all speak would be possible. And I deliberately chose religion, the church. And when I did, I found that I had to make still another deeper choice, and I'll get to the far-reaching aspect of what you said in a minute. I had to make a choice between Jesus and Christianity. Because I felt, as you intimate, you feel about the organized arrangements, that there was something that could not give me the hope that I needed growing up as I grew up in the United States in the organized structure of Christianity. And yet, I could not separate Jesus from the movement that brought his name except in terms that were personal and primary. When I began to pursue, to work out the logic of the choice that I had to make, then I found-and this may have been just a gratuity-- but I found various things in the experience of the life of Jesus that were not unlike the things I was going through in American society. And once I had made that connection, then his life began to mean to me a source of strength and inspiration that it had not meant when he was one with the movement itself, namely the church. I also discovered that it is the nature of the institution, whether it's church, state, school, whatever the nature of the institution, to deal impersonally with the problems in which persons are caught. For instance, for two years in high school-- I'm not trying to be melodramatic here, but the only life I know is mine, and I have to guess it about yours. But for two years in high 1 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu school, I dressed out in what was called the missionary barrel. Have you ever heard of that? And it came-- these barrels came from Maine and Massachusetts and Connecticut primarily. I don't think there were any from New Hampshire. [LAUGHTER] Pitts Theology Library Emory University And I needed the clothes, and I used the clothes. But there was something deep in me that built and built a great hostility. And something was born in me, and it has bearing on everything that I think and feel, that in administering to human need, whether it's in terms that you describe or any, what is always apt to be missing is that it is a man who is hungry. It is a person who's hungry. It is it is a child that is naked. And we don't know, even with all of the-- what's the word-- with all of the organized intents and so forth, the cleaning up the world and so forth, the one thing that I feel is apt to be missing, and which I felt in my life and in my way I would be called upon to supply-- not for everybody, but just for me-- and that is the sense that it's a man who is hungry. It's a person. And how to meet the creature needs so as not to undermine the integrity of the person who is being helped is, to me, the burden of the whole, is the thing that, from my point of view, is apt to be missing. So in giving my testimony of the bearing of the inner on the outer, I arrive at one or two very simple conclusions. And that is it is a matter of the profoundest kind of spiritual sensitivity to be able to help, to rescue, a human being in a manner that will enable that human being to forgive you for being able to help you. Because there's something-- oh, I'm saying too much about this, but I think it's very important. So I am always glad for the way in which organizations, structures, hierarchies, combines, devote their energies to the salvaging of the common life to make life easier and simpler and more beautiful for the destitute and the so-called underprivileged. And I applaud that, and I think that is that is a way that's very important, and I do not wish to exclude it. But for me, it is a spiritual quality to feed a hungry person in a manner that the hungry person knows that he is being addressed, not merely his hunger. Now, perhaps with my kind of background and my history, I have my kind of bias about it. I admit that. And it is not that I don't think the large scale impersonal operations that will take over and salvage the common life in terms of all of the environment and-- all of this, I think, is sacramental. But the way my life is conditioned and projected, I have to feel that the person who is helping me knows that I'm there. Not that my hunger is there, or my nakedness is there, but I'm there. And I think that the gift that the spirit of this sensitive person can make to these large-scale enterprises is to find a way to introduce that particular quality in it. And therefore, the spot where my life has moved to bear witness to my truth is where something can happen to make the person who is victimized feel that he is being cared for, not merely helped and salvaged. And the clue to that for me is in the creative synthesis that takes place as the outer and the inner come together and become the incentive for action and dedication. So this 2 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu is not in contradistinction to what you say, but it is to make clear what seems to me to be very important. Pitts Theology Library Emory University I just wish I knew, really knew, how to administer to human need, a human need, without putting my contaminated fingers into the quiet recesses of his private dignity. And I think if we can find a way to do that with these large-scale operations, then the outer and the inner will become one thing. Well, I've talked too long about it, but I wanted to respond to it. This is the time, the high moment for us to conclude our meeting. Thank you, Dr. Freeman, for last night [INAUDIBLE] so generously. Dr. Neuham, Larry, thank you all for coming. Well, several things have come together, 12:00 o'clock, and lunch, and a beautiful moment [INAUDIBLE]. Ah, well, can't beat that. [APPLAUSE] Thank you very much. Thank you. 3 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Mysticism and Social Change (1978, Berkeley, CA) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978 Description An account of the resource The Mysticism and Social Action collection is a series of recordings from the Lawrence Lecture at Berkeley Unitarian Church in California in 1978. In this collection, Thurman illustrates different understandings of mysticism and his own childhood mystical experiences. For Thurman, mystical experience is not an endpoint in religious experience, but rather opens up towards involvement in the social world. Thurman's lecture is also followed by a Q&A discussion in which Thurman touches on related topics such as: the discipline of centering, the personal nature of God, and what mysticism means in a world of suffering and injustice. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Descriptions by Rodell Jefferson III and Anthony Fiddes. AudioWithTranscription Audio that is shown through the 3Play Media embedded interactive transcript Audio with Transcription <iframe width="100%" height="820" frameborder="0" src="/files/players/394-698_A.html" ></iframe> Location The location of the interview, speech, lecture, or sermon Unitarian Church, Berkeley, California Original Title Title as transcribed from tape cassette Mysticism and Social Action, part 2 (Panel discussion with Howard Thurman) (Unitarian Church, Berkeley, CA; Panel Discussion with Howard Thurman # II), 1978 Oct 14 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 394-698_A Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Thurman, Howard Title A name given to the resource Mysticism and Social Action, Part 2 (Panel discussion with Howard Thurman, continued), 1978 October 14 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="http://pid.emory.edu/ark:/25593/rp8k9">MSS 394</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available <a href="http://pitts.emory.edu/">Pitts Theology Library, Emory University</a> Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant GEOMETRYCOLLECTION(POINT(-13612507.936726 4567839.7855007)) Description An account of the resource In this final installment of Mysticism and Social Change, Thurman gives a final word to the relationship between the inner life and social action in response to a questioner who wonders if mysticism is a luxury for the comfortable and the elite. Thurman begins by saying that he has little hope for institutions to change the social order of things, rather each person must choose where they stand and live out their dream for the world they want to live in. Thurman says that he chose the church to be the place where he decided to live out his dream, which came with its own set of tensions: the structures of the church could not give Thurman the hope he needed, but the message of Jesus did, and thus Thurman needed to parse the two apart in his personal and primary experience. Furthermore, Thurman says that institutions do not deal with people personally. While large-scale operations are important, Thurman says that one must "feed a hungry person in a manner that the hungry person knows that he is being addressed, not merely his hunger." Thurman thus sees himself, and the mystic insight, as bearing witness to this need, seeing that the victimized person feels cared for at their center, not merely superficially helped. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Description by Rodell Jefferson III. https://thurman.pitts.emory.edu/files/original/9f4d152809c06bbe2a445b95a545fa18.pdf 1fc6ea2e3ddbb4c30e027a5df43b9e95 PDF Text Text Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu 394-697_B.mp3 Pitts Theology Library Emory University They are innocence and knowledge. And one of those conflicts, of course, is what knowledge does to that innocence, to the suffering of that inner alter that you refer to. But I think even a deeper conflict is that knowledge reveals an external reality, superficial as though it may be, that a far different from the internal reality, except as that is extended in an abstract conceptualization of the outer reality. And I just wondered if you'd like to comment more on that kind of conflict and the role of knowledge here, the purpose of it. Yes, well, I think that one of the-- to me, one of the central problem in the conflict is that as innocence is lost in the experience of knowing, there is a guilt that comes with it that, from my point of view, can never be resolved because it is not a guilt for which the individual is responsible as a trespasser. It's the giver. And I noticed in the years that I was teaching, and primarily teaching undergraduates in college, and I would see-- I see youngsters come in full of whatever they had. And then, as they take their first courses in, let's say, in psychology and some other things, and there was a loss of-- a loss of a certain kind of innocence for which, sometimes even through the senior year, they felt somehow guilty with this-- I don't know how to say, but I think you sense what I mean. And I think that as long as the person lives, he's trying to atone for that. And it can never quite be done because things can never be as they once were. And it puts-- I think it puts too much of a burden on knowledge to absolve from the individual the guilt for a loss of innocence before the knowledge came. I don't have even [INAUDIBLE], but this, is it an [? attack ?] on our life when I just say, well, I don't want to know anything about this. I mean, I want to hang on to my private illusions a bit longer, you know. You remember in Ibsen's The Wild Duck? This young, radical man-- I don't remember him name. But his-- he felt that his job was to rid human beings of their illusions. And he talking to the doctor there in the play. And the doctor says, but don't do that. When you rob a man of his illusion, you for him of his [? innocence. ?] I don't know. That isn't the whole truth, but it sure scares the whole truth to death. [LAUGHTER] And I think that there is no, no resolution for this. Yeah, I don't think so. Because innocence is given, and knowledge is acquired. And then I think it put the-- it puts too great a burden on the psyche to deal that, I think, so that perhaps we can find ways to make guilt productive and creative and so forth and so on. But anyway, that's-- yes. Yes? Oh, I'm sorry. I'm not presiding. Excuse me. It's fine. No you can-Oh, no. I'm sorry. I-I'll ask [? Herman, ?] do you have a question or a comment [INAUDIBLE]. 1 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Well, if we wait until this-This will be. Then we open it up for-- It's related to the innocence question, but this is a curve ball. [GASP] Pitts Theology Library Emory University Yes. And it's, in my mind, it's stripping, that until we have stripped ourselves of this acquired knowledge and concepts of ourselves and opened up to ourselves as we are by some gift of grace, we will never perceive the universe as it really is either. And the stripping means-- it's something like the Buddha went through, an enormously strenuous total effort over years with everything laid on the counter. And in Hindu theology, of course, it took him what, 10,000 lifetimes or something to come to this? So that ordinary people like us just struggle through with our piecemeal illusions, ideas of ourselves, ways of earning a living, what kind of career we are. We are doctors. Or we are this or that. And we are actually fractions of ourselves. And we are so blind and so overburdened with these roles that we can never come to ourselves unless we finally give up. Hmm. By this-- [INAUDIBLE] give up, [INAUDIBLE], do you mean "let go" by give up? Completely, yes. By let go. Stop trying. Stop trying, yes. That doesn't mean it will happen. Maybe it will. I won't say what-- I'll pass on that for the moment. [LAUGHTER] I'll pass on that. But I'll come back to it though. Two hands raised. Suppose we take the gentleman first, just to switch things, and then the lady. Yes? 2 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Am I the young man? I was just wondering when the conflict that were talking about-Could you speak up a bit, please? The conflict going-- Pitts Theology Library Emory University [RATTLING] --between the inner and the outer could be somewhat helped-- eased-- by the idea that what you have quoted [INAUDIBLE], the idea that death is an important part of life. So if we add that [INAUDIBLE], that death is an important factor in our life and what comes after with our soul and being living and unknown, but expecting not anything to be cut off from us. That's my question. Would not have-- well, make one very quick other one [INAUDIBLE]. And that is that you and [INAUDIBLE] always almost worship order. And it's almost a blasphemy to say what I am saying. I don't care that they are important. I am just as happy in chaos. It makes no difference whatever to me. First of all, I think that there is a very profound insight in the notion that perhaps one of the critical tests of reality is the paradox itself. With reference to life and death, in my thinking, life is felt more than seen, I guess. But life is felt by me as having two dimensions-- one, life as contrasted with the death, and then life that contains both life and death. That just as an individual is never quite contained in what the individual is doing, or thinking, or being at any given time, there's always-- there's a margin that is the observer of the individual that is never absorbed in whatever it is that the individual is doing, or thinking, or is-ing. Because it seems to be that the experience of living is made up of a series of events, that which is eventful-- time-space intervals, units. But no single event ever quite says totally what the experience is. Some part of me remains the observer of me, the participant. And I think that's why I can never do anything that represents completely and utterly my intent. If I were to ask you now to select one thing that most completely and utterly represented you, you would hardly be able to do it. Because as soon as you made a choice of the thing in which all of your cylinders would work, if they all but this-- that did include this little spark plug here or there. So it's-- now therefore, it seems to me that there is a sense on which life is outside of any time-space intervals. But that dimension of life that is never totally consumed in any event is always informing the events. And I feel this way, to go back to your figure, about life and death. I think that death is an event in life. It is not something that takes place to life so that I may an observe. I, Howard Thurman the observer, may watch with something Howard Thurman die. Because a part-- then no, what I'm really trying to say is that no experience, however profound and intimate and significant, ever quite exhausts the life possibility in that event. So that that, therefore, when I think of life, I think of it as something that contains the totality of my existence and also something that contains the eventful aspect of my life, the thisness and the thatness. 3 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Pitts Theology Library Emory University And I think uniquely religions tends to focus on the life-death rhythm rather than on the life continuity rhythm. And I think in religion, religion at it's best, however, emphasizes both of these dimensions. And whatever may be the nature of the-- the historicity of the particular religions, I think they all finally come through this door, whereof there is a givenness of life that transcends all of the interpretation and the reactions to the experience of being alive. And therefore, for the religious person, I would like that. But the thing that attracts me, going back to the original thoughts we were [? writing, ?] the thing that attracts me most from the memory about the religion of the inner life is the fact of this, that here I come upon what in essence I am as a time-binder, as over against being merely a spacebinder, where I-- and it is the time-binding aspects of my life, the part of my life that is never quite trapped by the experiences of my life. And I think this to me is the ground of whatever optimism I have about the nature of existence and the ultimate destiny of man. Last time I was a moderator, I said lady and I was chastised. I should have said woman. So would the woman who raised her hand-Say lady to me. OK. [INAUDIBLE]. All right. Yes, Betty. Dr. Thurman, two things-- first, I was very interested in the topic-[MICROPHONE RATTLES] --because it seems sort of Emersononian to me. And Emerson brought me to the Unitarian Church. The whole idea of balance and integration seems to me to [INAUDIBLE] like that kind of history. But I'm also very interested in this idea of innocently experience. I studied William Wake quite a lot. And I'm interested in the whole idea of the mystical life and the relationship between the life in the mystic and the traditional stages that the mystic goes through as compared to the rest of us, who might not really think of ourselves as a mystic, but perhaps are going through some of the same stages. When you talk about the average college student, for instance, who goes in and has an innocence and then get by experiences of the first and second states of mysticism. And I think many of us in middle age have gone through a dark night of souls. For that reason, couldn't you say that all of this together creates this life and death path that you're talking about in this cycle. And isn't there a little optimism at the end of life. Oh, I think there's optimism in the whole process. In the first place is I think there's optimism because I don't have any choice. 4 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu [LAUGHTER] I mean, I'm stuck with life. There's nowhere to go. So I've settled in for the long pull. [LAUGHTER] Pitts Theology Library Emory University And I think that-- and I think that a part of my assignment is to distill, out of the raw materials of my experience, all the necessitous ingredients that I need to make my journey. And I don't think I have to go all around trying to-- I think it's all here on my path. When I get there, I'll go, wondrous creature-- what is it? Where science guides, instruct the planets in which orbs to run. What else? What is it, do you know, Pope's essay? Go wondrous-- does anybody know? Do you remember it? Go wondrous, creature where-mount where science guides. Instruct the planets in which orb to run. State the tides and regulate the sun. Then drop into thyself and be a fool. Now-- so I start with myself and move out to the planets, thinking that I short-circuit the process. But I don't want any-- no, that's wrong. I think that all that I need for my journey is inherent in my journey. Now I may not know it until I run into something over here. And when I see it over there, I said, oh, yes. I'm familiar with that, but I didn't know that's what it was. So I come back to my-- I think that-- no, no, that's wrong. For me, the problem is to not be confused by the categories that I use. When I-- at the end of my first year in seminary, I came back home for a month-- for two weeks. And I was very anxious to get back because it was the first time that I had lived up north. And I wanted to talk to my grandmother and mama, particularly my grandmother, about all of these marvelous things I had been learning about Jesus. And I had never heard of low criticism, high criticism, and [? J ?] and [? ye. ?] You know, all that business. And I was just full of it. I was anxious to get back to give her the real scoop on Jesus. [LAUGHTER] Oh it was wonderful. And she sat there, patiently rocking and listening to me. And then when I finished, she said, well, you know, boy. You didn't have to go to Rochester to learn that. Then she started talking to me about Jesus, not in Christological terms, but as if he were our neighbor, a whole new something [INAUDIBLE]. Now I feel that the raw materials of our experiences are given to us, out of which we make the ingredients needful for the negotiation of the time interval of our life. I feel this very [INAUDIBLE]. Well, yes? [INTERPOSING VOICES] Before you speak I'd like to take-- and then I'll let you speak. I'd like to take a straw vote. I don't want to break the momentum of our meeting. We've been going an hour and 15 minutes. Would you like, after this question, a five-minute break? 5 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Yes. Yeah. OK. And would you like-- I heard your, "oh, yes." Oh, yes. Do you have coffee? Pitts Theology Library Emory University Yes. We'll supply coffee. But I think I'd like to have this young man have the opportunity to ask his question or make his comment. Yes. Of course, yes. Yes, sir. I say young [INAUDIBLE]. The sun is shining through those curtains. And really can't see very well looking this way. Oh, yeah. A big oh, yeah, he said. So would the old man please like to stand up. [LAUGHTER] I'd like to [INAUDIBLE] conflict between the inner and the outer. Yes. What I'd like to say is that I come from a very different background. Anything that-- my entire life has been very much that of a rationalist. Nevertheless, through some recent experiences, I have come to where I can fully resonate with everything that you have said, feel the sense of what an inner life is. And I can feel a sense of relationships between an inner and outer life. And I believe I feel the significance of all that. However, there's one important difference. And the one important difference is that the word God does not at all enter into my experience. Now I'd like, as you referred to the impact of categories, I think the impact of the category "God" has important significance upon where I am as compared to where I hear you are, particularly on this issue of the conflict between inner reality. You told the story of the Texas with whom you had gone over the issue of your expectation, that there would be words between you, and that then you were able to have a relationship. I believe that, on the issue of God, perhaps my childhood was somewhat unique in that there was nothing to which I was exposed that would lead me to ever cope with the concept of a personal god. And 6 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu accordingly, while I'm sure many people have had childhood experiences with that and then, as a result, later experienced in their practice that deep down within their sense is some expectation of the nature of a personal god. Pitts Theology Library Emory University And accordingly, for those people, I believe that when they start thinking in terms of an inner life, and with the expectation then there is a place that you will meet God, I think what gets involved in it is you've got an expectation of what God is going to be like. And accordingly, since I don't have that expectation, I don't need to deal with the fact that it's a conflict between inner and outer. Because I'm not looking for an inner life that would be different than the relationship to what I have learned as an outer life. [INAUDIBLE]. Hm. Oh, excuse me. It's OK. No, I don't-- I don't-- I don't [? require ?] something. Well, I like it black, but it's all right. Oh, I can get it of the black one. Oh, I hate to have you do that. Excuse me a minute. Mm. Do you remember, there was a reference last night. I quoted three or four lines from Olive Schreiner's-- [INAUDIBLE]-- yes, the story of an African farm. And this young woman asked this man, do you ever pray? And he said, no. But he said-- then he described this [INAUDIBLE] and I wouldn't pray, but the feeling, what I would call the feeling prayer. Now, I'm very-- I'm very-- I'm very moved by what you have had to say. Because I think it points out something very important in the whole and the total experience that we designate as being religious. To me the crucial element, even in the use of the category, has to do with the nature of the response of the individual to the experience. But one of the things that I think is important, certainly for me, and I think it's fundamental to what, for lack of a better term, I would call the experience of religious piety, is that under certain circumstances, and in certain moods are regarded as moods of response to an experience which is labeled in the highest and most significant terms possible. As you were talking, by my rather hurriedly, or quickly, or suddenly over the whole evolution of my own thought and feeling about this and what has happened in the course of these years of my life to my idea of God. And the most important thing that has happened is that, to me, God is no longer an idea in the mind. I think, when I was a little boy, one of the things that monitored my behavior at night was the fact that the stars were peepholes through which God could look and see what I was doing at night. And this was a great-- this was great-- not that I was interested in doing things at night that I wouldn't do in the day, but nevertheless, I felt that-- I felt the personal imago. 7 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu As I've grown older, and my own inner-- my own religious experience has developed, I have no idea in my mind when I use the term God-- no, that's wrong. No, that's not quite what I'm thinking. That to me God is more than an idea in the mind. That's really what I'm saying. I go back to my childhood again. What would we do if we didn't have a childhood? We wouldn't be here. We'd be better off. Pitts Theology Library Emory University And the personal aspect of it is, my-- the personal meaning is-- the personal meaning of the term, I'll get it all in-- is my response to a sense-- this may seem very vague to you, or to anybody-- my response to a sense of presence. Now what do I mean by that? Ah! Oh, someone says we wouldn't be here. Someone says we'd be better off. Now you can take your choice. You're stuck with it anyway. Growing up in our town, we believed in ghosts. You know, you-- of course, nobody in this room has ever had that as a part of his or her experience, but I grew up as a boy in Florida, in Daytona, believing in ghosts. And I actually had an experience once. I won't get off the point by telling you about it, but-- oh, don't forget it, yes. But the thing that marked-- this is what I'm getting at. The thing that marked the presence of a ghost was a wave of heat. You're walking along on a dark road, then you turn off the main street going down to my house. And if suddenly-- and this is Florida, and we had a little heat with us. But really, that didn't make any difference. When a wave of heat swept over you, you knew now that you were in the presence of a spirit, undefined, not the spirit of your father or your uncle. But it was the manifestation of a presence. Now, it seems to me that all arguments of any kind that seek to make a case for the existence of God, from my point of view, are completely irrelevant. When I think of God, I think of the kind of response that is evoked in me under certain particular circumstances and conditions. I say when I think. When I am aware of God, it has, this awareness, has no definition, no category. It's a sense. It's a-- it's a feeling tone. And I think that, for me, feelings are in-- are mental processes moving so fast that you can't break them down in particulars. When the slow down, then they become mental things. So if you-- so that I, therefore-- and I don't want to drag this out. But I understand, I think, what you are saying. And when I applied the question you raised to myself, God is personal to me in terms of the quality and the kind of response that I make to what to me is the sacred and the holy. I might say, I do believe we are very much in the same place. What I was trying to bring out more is the process by which you got there. Ah. 8 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu It's what changed the issue of the conflict. For me, I don't sense this conflict between the inner and the outer. And I'm suggesting that the reason that I didn't-- I don't feel it, or didn't feel it, is that I didn't go through the process of expanding the category or the concept of God. [MICROPHONE CLANGS] Deal with this now. Oh, no. That's-- we're going to see [INAUDIBLE] now. Pitts Theology Library Emory University Oh, I see. That may be true. I think we better take a-- you can pick this up at that point, if you like. Let us take a 10-minute break. And I really mean 10 minutes, then we'll be back. Ah. Oh. --what you were saying. And I also want to bring some of the thoughts here that I was having last night. I met a challenge of two minutes to express my depth and scope of a response to Dr. Thurman. But one of the things that he's given me that I've used over and over again is, freedom is a set of options. So last night I exercised my options and chose not to deal with the challenge of talking because I couldn't get my heart and mind all up there at the same time, within the given. But one of the things I wanted to say in some kind of way is that I have a lot of gratitude for Dr. Thurman because he has enabled me to bring God to my Unitarian Universalist Church. And I no longer apologize for God here. And-[INAUDIBLE]. [LAUGHTER] And I can't tell you how much that means to me. It just loosens up my stomach. [LAUGHTER] Thank you. Go on. Yeah, and another thing I wanted to say is that if I had a lot of gratitude for a tool that he gave me. And I'd like to share that tool. And the tool is spiritual discipline. The first seminar I ever went to with Dr. Thurman was called "Spiritual Discipline." And up until that time, I didn't know the spirit could be disciplined. And there are actual "how to do its" that helps us come to the place where we can experience the presence of God as we imagined as children. And one of those important disciplines is the discipline of prayer. And I exercise that discipline, and I would like to invite any other Unitarian Universalists to come with me and go through the 9 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu same kinds of things that the students have gone through in order to find and exercise those lessons in this [? life. ?] I don't like going to other churches to pray. I like to pray in my home. And that's how Dr. Thurman defines church-- at home. Betty? Betty, go. Pitts Theology Library Emory University Lucille. Lucille? Yes. Oh, I'm sorry. [INAUDIBLE]. I appreciate very much what you have been saying about the inner life and the alternate in and centering and all of this. But I would like to see if I can have a change of emphasis. It seems to me the emphasis has been on mysticism with very little discussion of social action. Now, it seems to me that in a world in which two thirds of the people that are [? literally ?] starving, in which a slight cut to the [INAUDIBLE] destroyed, all the things for which we have reference, and [INAUDIBLE] try to circulate one of my central motivations, that to concentrate on introspection is a luxury for a very small elite in this world, mostly of middle class people. And that, although I know you have said, and I notice the Zen Buddhists and Maharishi and others all say that inner centering leads-- [? manic ?] leads to effectiveness in the world of social action. I have not found this, in fact, true. I would like to be proven wrong by observation. But it's been my observation that for every [INAUDIBLE], you have hundreds of Maharishis who kind of assume that if you meditate everything will come out all right. I simply don't believe this is true. I think there's a lot of work to be done in the world before it's safe for people to pursue their own salvation. I don't see the leadership in the peace movement, in the movement for economic justice, in the movement for world government and world law, and supporting the UN. I don't see it coming from the spiritual community. And I'm discouraged about this. This-- for every Martin Luther King, now who's affected in social action, we have dozens of Huey Newtons. 10 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Mysticism and Social Change (1978, Berkeley, CA) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978 Description An account of the resource The Mysticism and Social Action collection is a series of recordings from the Lawrence Lecture at Berkeley Unitarian Church in California in 1978. In this collection, Thurman illustrates different understandings of mysticism and his own childhood mystical experiences. For Thurman, mystical experience is not an endpoint in religious experience, but rather opens up towards involvement in the social world. Thurman's lecture is also followed by a Q&A discussion in which Thurman touches on related topics such as: the discipline of centering, the personal nature of God, and what mysticism means in a world of suffering and injustice. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Descriptions by Rodell Jefferson III and Anthony Fiddes. AudioWithTranscription Audio that is shown through the 3Play Media embedded interactive transcript Audio with Transcription <iframe width="100%" height="820" frameborder="0" src="/files/players/394-697_B.html" ></iframe> Location The location of the interview, speech, lecture, or sermon Unitarian Church, Berkeley, California Original Title Title as transcribed from tape cassette Mysticism and Social Action, part 1 (Panel discussion with Howard Thurman) (Unitarian Church, Berkeley, CA; Panel Discussion with Howard Thurman # I), 1978 Oct 14, Side B Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 394-697_B Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Thurman, Howard Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="http://pid.emory.edu/ark:/25593/rp8k9">MSS 394</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available <a href="http://pitts.emory.edu/">Pitts Theology Library, Emory University</a> Title A name given to the resource Mysticism and Social Action, Part 1 (Panel discussion with Howard Thurman, continued), 1978 October 14 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant GEOMETRYCOLLECTION(POINT(-13612507.936726 4567839.7855007)) Description An account of the resource This recording is a continuation of the Q&A discussion on Mysticism and Social Action. Thurman begins by fielding a question about the relationship between innocence and knowledge, and the tension that one feels between inner reality and outer reality. Thurman also gives his thoughts on death as an experience of life, saying that death is not the final extinguishment of life, but rather an event that is a part of life. Thurman insists that there is a life-continuity rhythm just as there is a life-death rhythm. Lastly, Thurman speaks to the experience of religion, and the experience of God beyond an idea in the mind. Thurman says that the personal aspect of God, for him, is a sense of presence beyond definition and category, felt in the body rather than known through mental processes. The recording ends with a pointed question about the relationship between mysticism and the alleviation of suffering and injustice in the world, which is picked up in the next section. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Description by Rodell Jefferson III. https://thurman.pitts.emory.edu/files/original/213775e38e24b5847cd8cdd32c6282ad.pdf f17b58d6f08f4a10e004ec8a584b9bf1 PDF Text Text Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu 394-697_A.mp3 I'm Howard [INAUDIBLE]. Pitts Theology Library Emory University [INAUDIBLE]. Recently retired as minister to migrant farm workers of our denomination. And as you know, the delegates meeting is going on in the other room, and Dr. Thurman understands that also. And as you know, in Unitarian Universalist circles, you will never start a meeting without announcements, so my wife, Rosemary, has an announcement she'd like to make at this time. I just want to remind you that Dr. Thurman's books and [INAUDIBLE] his writings are for sale at the table right around the corner in [? the atrium. ?] And Dr. Thurman will autograph the books that you buy today. And last night was taped, and today's was taped, and very shortly the tapes will be available. The truth [INAUDIBLE] education [? trust ?] [INAUDIBLE] for [INAUDIBLE] or for the full program last night [INAUDIBLE] [? when we can. ?] And you can order. [? I think that's ?] now if you want to, if you'd like to have them. We will be printing the collection [INAUDIBLE]. I don't like to compete with the taping, which I gather will go through your foundation. Is that right, Dr. Thurman? But [? Bulkie ?] asked me to announce that your talk last night will be printed and distributed by this church. So you can have it both written and the sound of the voice, which I think makes a great difference. This is going to be a rather informal discussion, I would think. I have been assigned the role of moderator. I really don't think there's going to be too much moderating going on. We're going to have two discussants. One discussant will be Larry [? Berger. ?] The other discussant will be [? Hayman ?] [? Rumend ?] who is on the committee. Some of you may not have heard Dr. Thurman last night-- his very profound and moving talk that he gave to us. So to initiate our discussion and to help our discussants, Dr. Thurman will begin our-- oh, by the way, we want you, too, to enter into a give and take. This is not a question and answer period. Thank you. This is a discussion period, but Dr. Thurman will speak to us to sort of get our thinking going and to help our discussants recall some of the discussion that we held last night. I'd like to say just one further word, and then I'm out until I moderate. How many years ago, Rosemary-- 15 years ago when I was in First Unitarian Church in San Francisco as a minister, Dr. [? Schofield ?] was on sabbatical. I was alone, came down with a high fever on a Saturday night, and as always looked at my wife, and said, what'll I do? And she thought and thought, and she said, I have a great idea. Let's call Howard Thurman. So about 11 o'clock at night-- it was a great idea for us, not for him. [LAUGHTER] 1 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu He had just returned that day from an exhausting tour, but he said without hesitation, yes, I'll be there. And he took the entire service. I was in bed. I heard a [INAUDIBLE], and I lay there in bed, I admired myself and my courage of having Dr. Thurman in the pulpit knowing that the following Sunday I had to come [INAUDIBLE]. Pitts Theology Library Emory University [LAUGHTER] But I was very grateful, and thank you for it. So would you sort of enlighten us again on your thinking on this subject or anything else you have in mind? There is, in every person, an inward sea. Excuse me. And in that sea, there is an island, and on that island, there is an altar. And standing guard before that altar is the angel with the flaming sword. Nothing can get by that angel to be placed upon that altar unless it has the mark of your inner authority. Nothing passes the angel with the flaming sword to be placed upon your altar unless it be a part of the fluid area of your consent. This is your crucial link with the eternal. My central concern in thinking through and working out the talk last night was to define for myself what to me were the spiritual grounds for any involvement in exercises or activities that dealt with what to me is the central religious problem of the religion of the inner life, namely the apparent paradox. [INAUDIBLE]. Nothing. Oh. [LAUGHTER] Where was I? Oh, yes-- the apparent paradox that is inherent in the fact that the religion of the inner life seems to demand a retreat from involvement in the walk and woof of just garden variety struggles in which human life is caught up. In other words, there is something very sensitive and profound about the way in which the religion of the heart pulls the individual more and more away from the things that claw, and that dirty, and that soil. And yet it seems to be and had seemed to be, ever since I became reflective about meaning, that the inner and the outer dimensions of life represent a single pulse beat, not two different pulse beats. Not two different rhythms, but one ebb and flow. Someone asked Mahatma Gandhi, why don't you join one of the holy men up in the Himalayas? Why did you join us up here? You cannot achieve the inner equilibrium and balance if you dirty yourself with even the politics of survival. And Gandhi replied that he didn't need to flagellate his flesh by wearing hair shirts and all the other cute tiddlywinks that go with that, but he was involved in wearing a hair shirt because the British government was his hair shirt, and he didn't need anything else. 2 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Pitts Theology Library Emory University And if you can work it out so that he could be involved in the traffic of the common life and at the same time use that involvement as raw material for making and deepening the inner life, this is the combination so that-- I'm talking too long, but I didn't ask for this first chance, so I'll say what I have to say, or most of it. The conflict is a very real one for me. How to keep my altar-my inner altar uncluttered, and at the same time not use that as an escape from involvement in the traffic of life. I'm still self-conscious in using the term mysticism, even, because it is a term that came into my life long after the experience. I think there's something so wonderful and free about being able to experience life, or reality, or religion without being bothered about how you label it. Something I found after I was acquainted with the term mysticism, and its categories, and so forth, and so on that for a long stretch of time I neglected my own inner familiar altar until I found that the term is just a term, but the important thing about it was the quality of the experience. But that's [INAUDIBLE] [? day. ?] I want to get back to the central thing that is in my mind and working out the address last night. Can the life denying aspect of profound religious experience nourish the life affirming aspects of involvement in a social enterprise? And I think that these two things are one, and that was the thing behind the consideration at work in my mind in preparing the talk last night. And one more thing. When I was at Howard University one of the several years, among our list of preachers was [INAUDIBLE], and because the university had no guest business, they always stayed at our house. I mean the guest preacher. And one night when Riley came we were having the typical no holds barred discussion about religion, and society, and social action, and all the rest of it. And on Tuesday, in his lecture at Union, he referred to this discussion. And there was one negro fellow in his class, and when Riley finished making this [? reference, ?] this fellow had a rather important comment to make, which Riley passed on to me that night by way of the telephone. He said, I was talking about this, drawing some illustrations from our experience the weekend. And this young fellow said, [INAUDIBLE]. I'm embarrassed now, but anyway, this is what he said. When this Thurman fellow came up out of Florida and began to talk around, many of us who were much younger were sure that at last someone had come who would be our Moses. Do you understand the use of the term Moses? And what did he do? He turned mystic on us. [LAUGHTER] Fortunately for me, the outer and the inner are one rhythm, and I feel therefore in my work with the mystics that the alive denying and the life affirming dimensions of the religion of the inner life represent one emphasis rather than two contradictory emphases. But the center is in the individual, and the individual has always tried to find at the heart of the conflict that which is what's laid bare-- is integrating it, integrating it, integrating it, announcing that all life is one, that this is a universe, that the contradictions of life are never final and ultimate, that life rejects ultimately all dualism, that finally they break down. And I believe this. Well, that's enough talk. I'll go on and on. That's enough talk. Let's open. 3 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Now, I don't know whether one of our discussants is [? clean ?] here or not. [LAUGHTER] [INAUDIBLE] open window before I [? catch ?] too much. Pitts Theology Library Emory University I was just going to call on you to speak. [LAUGHTER] Larry Berger started last night, so Larry, I thought we'd-- well, why don't you go, [? Larry ?] [INAUDIBLE]. I, from my own thinking, experience, feel that you probably touched one of the most crucial issues in life, if not one of the most paradoxical, of trying to span this gulf between the inner and the outer. To me, although not a religious scholar by any manner of means, and as a Unitarian, I am not greatly moved by scripture, possibly, but I've always found the story of Christ of unique meaning when he went into the wilderness, but returned. And there was this great paradox, and at the same time unity of withdrawal and return. Do you feel in that act that somehow this problem had been resolved? Yes, I feel very definitely that going back to the thing that the experience is according to the record that set him originally into the desert, the experience of the baptism and John. And to me, the thing that's most exciting about that-- one of the most exciting things is the fact that it was a private primary personal experience. He saw the heavens open and the dove descend. He heard the voice. No one else did. He told them about it evidently. And He felt driven into some kind of experience of detachment, but to me the striking thing was that he carried into the wilderness the whole conflict. And the conflict, as I reflect upon it, was, how can a day by day life be lived by one who has had the kind of tremendous experience that is allegedly had by Him in the baptism? What is day by day life like for someone who has invested in that way? And from my point of view, the whole story of the life of Jesus reveals the struggle with this. How can I integrate the contradictory aspects of my experience so that I will not be as a figure in Pilgrim's Progress Mr. Looking-both-ways or Mr. Walking-both-ways. [INAUDIBLE] what must have been the horrendous internal tempest going on in him, to walk down the street on his way to the home [INAUDIBLE] with a Roman soldier going to his home to help somebody who's sick [? instead of-- ?] what it must have cost as a Jew in Palestine to walk down the street with the representative of the master. In other words, it seems to me that what each of us is faced with is in a limited way, perhaps even going [INAUDIBLE] even the same sort of [? central ?] conflict. And to express it in another way, we have two daughters, and one is younger than the other. [LAUGHTER] 4 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu [LAUGHTER] You're being anointed. [LAUGHTER] No, no. [INAUDIBLE]. [INAUDIBLE]. [INAUDIBLE] everything is animated around here. [LAUGHTER] [INAUDIBLE] [? you ?] [? have. ?] Do you remember where you were? [? You wanted to ?] come back to Washington. [LAUGHTER] Pitts Theology Library Emory University And the younger daughter always says to me-- well, she said to me when she could do it without being responsible. She doesn't say it much now because I hold her more responsible. But anyway, she said, daddy, we ask you a simple question, and you go to the North Pole, South Pole, come through Europe, land in New York, and finally get back to Washington with the answer, but why can't you just-- but I can't. It's too late. It's too late now, but it is not merely the-- It would be a very different matter, it seems to me, if what we would talk about now, the issues-well, one that involved uniquely the dimension of religion, and the religious enterprise, and the religious experience, but this paradox emerges in all kinds of dimensions in our lives. You remember, in Lincoln Steffen's autobiography, one of the great things that he points out is how there is in place and position of authority an ethic, immorality, a whole behavior pattern, a construct of behavior patterns, which are waiting for anybody who occupies the position of father, or president, or whatever it is. And over and over again, a man finds himself saying, left to myself, this is what I would do, but as so and so and so, I can't do this. It's another form of the same thing, and finally we get to the place that we advocate. I don't know how you feel, ladies and gentlemen, but there are so many times in my life that I just wish that I didn't have to decide. The conference of which I spoke last night down in Missouri-- student conference-- I lived in a cottage for five days, and I saw students in the afternoon. My office was the porch of this cottage. And I'd see students from 2:00 to 5:00. Promptly at 2 o'clock the first day, a man came in from Texas A&M. He was a cowboy. He was smoking a cob pipe. He came in and sat on the 5 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu porch with his back against the wall, lighted his cob pipe thing, and said nothing. Just sat there, puffing and looking out, puffing and looking out. Pitts Theology Library Emory University And at the end of the hour, he said, a nice visit. I'll see you this time tomorrow. The next day he came. Same thing. Third day he came, and some young woman rode into the place on a horse, and he said, what a pity to have an animal in an environment in which the animal cannot be happy, and kept [? on flowing. ?] The last day, when he got up to go, he said, it has been a wonderful experience to sit here and not spend our time [INAUDIBLE] and [INAUDIBLE]. Give my love to your people, and I'll give your love to mine. And he shook my hand and left. Now, I had a curiously interesting kind of sense of communion with him after I got over the expectation that we must engage in verbal dialogue. Well, that's enough. The crucial element, Dr. Thurman, for me, is centering. I don't think a person can do anything unless he centered. My conflict is that the Jewish background demands involvement in this life, that God is enormously active and demanding. The rewards, if any, come later, but it isn't up to us. But unless a person is centered, all kinds of action are perfectly futile, and it may take more than one lifetime to get centered. And the centering is an involved and tortuous business. It's like you don't know what's wrong, but you hope to flank it. You may have religious and mystical insights, but they don't build you solidly. Something has to happen, and if you go after other people's models and disciplines, they don't hang on you. You have to find your own. This is an intensely lengthy and wearing search. I certainly do that, but the interesting thing to me is that I'm never relieved of the necessity for trying to find a way to do it. There's something in us all, I think, that wants to be total, that wants to be-- wants to be whole, wants to be-- what's the word-- integrated. And I think that the central spiritual problem in connection with it is to be willing-- I don't know how to say this. To be willing to accept the fact that one has to work at it as long as one lives. And this is where the mind plays the trick. I wish I could understand the mind, because it wants-it meaning the mind-- wants a therefore, a QED. The mind is always drawing a line and adding. And I suppose because the mind is so young in comparison to the rest of us-- I don't mean the rest of us, but I mean the rest of us. I mean, we just got it the other day. I don't know what'll happen when the mind really grows up, and so it's on the defensive. It tends to be logical, and it hasn't lived long enough to wait, but be that as it may, I think that it is important to remember that, as long as we live, we will be engaged in the process of trying to achieve the thing that you're talking about. And I think sometimes it's interesting to me in terms of the Jewish religion itself that the deep-- and when I use the word abysmal, I mean it in terms of depth, not in terms of chaos-- sense of feeling-- no-- of being aware of the fact that one is chosen. Chosen. I think we've underestimated what this has meant in the whole history of religion on this planet. That's too far afield, but anyway, [INAUDIBLE] whisper [INAUDIBLE]. The sense that the 6 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu creator of existence, that the mind, or spirit, whatever the word you want to use it that bottoms all existence, that out of the boundless manifold expressions of creative manifestations in the form of minds and bodies over millions of years, that, in some strange miraculous way, we will give them the nod. Pitts Theology Library Emory University Now, the historicity of that is not important. I don't think it is, but I think the fact is of its reality. Now, the sense of its reality is very crucial, and this means that, one, that centeredness is given. It's one of the givens and that's inherent in the whole experience of being chosen, of being elected. I don't want to use that word. Being chosen-- that's much better. And it seems to me that one of the spiritual problems that stand-- that shout in my mind as a reaction to your comment is that it just may be that, because of this given fact, or this myth of however you say it, of however you define or interpret the meaning of this tremendous thing, the sense of being chosen by the king of the universe to be in some unique sense His, for instance, among the children of men. That whole thing tends psychologically, I think, to reject any notion that has to do with the cultivation of the inner life through discipline. I really see what I'm trying to say. Let me try again, because I just feel a vacuum everywhere. What I'm saying is that, however historically we account for it, what the historicity of the notion is, I don't know. I'm not wise enough-- I don't know, but the given is that here is this unique claim on the part of a section of the human race. How it got that way, all of the things that-- I don't know, but this is the residue that, of all the generations of human beings from the beginning, we carry in us the seed of the eternal so that what all the John Doe's in the world must go through discipline, and struggle, and sacrifice, and all kinds of things-- finally to hear the voice from [? Sinai. ?] To these people, the voice is a given. It's a given with the result that one does not have to-- please, I hope you understand what I'm trying to struggle though with my mind. One does not have to spend, for instance, a whole lifetime, or years, or whatever it is in working out spiritual disciplines, and coring, and centering, and wooing the eternal to breathe in this little [? locus of mind. ?] No. What a thing this is. And I do not speak in any way that's irreverent. Please, I don't think so. But I'm always interested, particularly when I'm in New York City or any big city. And I read the Saturday paper, and I see all the listing of the services. And as a preacher, I'm always interested in what the subjects are, what these people, various ministers are using as their subjects. And I am always intrigued by the topics that the rabbis use. I'm always intrigued [? by them. ?] Very rarely is there ever a topic which has to do from my point of view primarily with the inner spiritual life. This is my observation. It may not be-- I don't generalize, but this is-- now, I don't think that's an accident, but I think it's rooted in overwhelmingly impossible thing to comprehend, the sense of being chosen by the creator of existence. Well, that's enough about that, but anyway, that's-- the rest of mankind, in this sense, has to work at centering. And in a sense, here is a whole line of human beings in which centering by heritage is the given. That's what I'm saying in a nutshell. Well, I've talked [? for ?] [INAUDIBLE]. 7 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu I want to say this. I know many of you are anxious to share my discussion. We're going to do this, but what I thought, after getting some feedback-- is I thought this first hour the panelists and Dr. Thurman will sort of share, and then we'll move out into a total discussion. We might at some point want to take a few moments break. OK. Pitts Theology Library Emory University I'd rather let the panelists get involved in the second hour, too, and involve us in the first hour as things come up. It occurs to me on what was just said, we, as Unitarians, fall into the habit of thinking of ourselves as such intellectual snobs that we are the chosen one, and therefore we don't have to go through [INAUDIBLE]. [LAUGHTER] Yeah. To be the first born is very costly. Yes, sir? Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were-[INAUDIBLE] written questions and then talk to them [INAUDIBLE]. Written questions? No, I think they'd rather [INAUDIBLE] discussion. Yes, [? sir? ?] I'd like to refer to another what appears to be basic conflict or contradiction. I know this little book that you-- 8 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Mysticism and Social Change (1978, Berkeley, CA) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978 Description An account of the resource The Mysticism and Social Action collection is a series of recordings from the Lawrence Lecture at Berkeley Unitarian Church in California in 1978. In this collection, Thurman illustrates different understandings of mysticism and his own childhood mystical experiences. For Thurman, mystical experience is not an endpoint in religious experience, but rather opens up towards involvement in the social world. Thurman's lecture is also followed by a Q&A discussion in which Thurman touches on related topics such as: the discipline of centering, the personal nature of God, and what mysticism means in a world of suffering and injustice. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Descriptions by Rodell Jefferson III and Anthony Fiddes. AudioWithTranscription Audio that is shown through the 3Play Media embedded interactive transcript Audio with Transcription <iframe width="100%" height="820" frameborder="0" src="/files/players/394-697_A.html" ></iframe> Location The location of the interview, speech, lecture, or sermon Unitarian Church, Berkeley, California Original Title Title as transcribed from tape cassette Mysticism and Social Action, part 1 (Panel discussion with Howard Thurman) (Unitarian Church, Berkeley, CA; Panel Discussion with Howard Thurman # I), 1978 Oct 14 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 394-697_A Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Thurman, Howard Title A name given to the resource Mysticism and Social Action, Part 1 (Panel discussion with Howard Thurman), 1978 October 14 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="http://pid.emory.edu/ark:/25593/rp8k9">MSS 394</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available <a href="http://pitts.emory.edu/">Pitts Theology Library, Emory University</a> Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant GEOMETRYCOLLECTION(POINT(-13612507.936726 4567839.7855007)) Description An account of the resource This section of the Mysticism and Social Action collection contains a brief talk by Thurman followed by Q&A discussion. Thurman grounds the discussion in the paradox of religion: How does one keep their inner life uncluttered whilst not using the inner life as an escape from involvement in the world? Thurman insists that these two rhythms are actually part of one pulse beat. One questioner asks Thurman about the temptation of Jesus in the wilderness and how this might reflect the dynamics of withdrawal and return in religious life. Another questioner asks about the discipline of centering, in which Thurman offers his thoughts on what it means to be a "chosen" people. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Description by Rodell Jefferson III. https://thurman.pitts.emory.edu/files/original/47258f4e195791ca5e96731bd3600727.pdf c3bdde393a4830acf03f2f5dc08c3c50 PDF Text Text Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu 394-696_B.mp3 Pitts Theology Library Emory University --to him because the neighborhood was poor and without defenses. The week before, he had been advised to discontinue the practice. On this day, committee found that nothing had changed. Such was the report to the group that Saturday morning. It was discussed and then decided that his business should be boycotted, and picketed, and forced to close. The roster was set up and the first group went to begin the picket vigil. One man, in his comment from the floor, said, as they left, we do not wish him any harm, particularly, but he must be forced to feel what it is like to be victimized and to be defenseless. What is important for the mystic is that the purpose of the shock treatment is to hold before the offender a mirror that registers an image of himself that reflects the image of those who suffer at his hand. The total function of such action is to tear a man from any alignments that prevent them from putting themselves in the other person's place. But it must never be forgotten that the central concern of the mystic is to seek to remove anything that prevents the individual from free and easy access to his own [? altar ?] stare that is in his own heart. Therefore, social action, from my point of view, is never, for such a person, an end in itself. Finally, when all possible methods of social action have been exhausted without any appreciable relief or change in a given condition, and then what does one do? I must select what seems to me to be the critical moment when my maximum sacrifice will make my ultimate contribution to the relief of human need and human suffering. And you know, I don't think that any of us ever know what we will do under such circumstances. If I may do what I will do anyway-[LAUGHTER] In 1947, I was invited down for a commencement at State College in Pine Bluff, Arkansas. I traveled by train, and my train was late. And when I got to Pine Bluff-- no, some city. I don't know. [INAUDIBLE] Springs? What is the city? The big city in-- Little Rock. Excuse me. Yeah. When I got a Little Rock, the connecting train had left. So I called the college-- which was at Pine Bluff-- telling them that I was there and the train had gone. So he said, well, in an hour or two, someone will be to pick you up. So I waited and two young men came in this car, and we got in for the drive over to Pine Bluff. We rode the entire distance and not a word was spoken. They said nothing to each other. They said nothing to me. I said nothing to them, and nothing to myself. [LAUGHTER] When we arrived at the campus, I noticed that, even though it was 2 o'clock in the morning, all the lights were out on the campus, even the lights on the sidewalks-- everything. The campus was dark. As we turned into the campus, we had been driving about three minutes, when, in front 1 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu of a car-- in front of the headlights-- stood a man with a rifle. And he came over and identified us, and we [INAUDIBLE]. And little further along, so I never did this. Pitts Theology Library Emory University And finally, we came to a place I didn't know. We were in front of a house because it's very dark, and the young man said, this is where you get out. You're spending the night here with this family. And he helped me out with my bags, and I rang the doorbell. And it was the home of a young lady who had lived with us when we were living in Washington at Howard University. And when she saw me, she fell on my neck and began to weep. And she said, oh, papi-- that's what she called me-- you made it. And when she began crying, I said to myself, oh my goodness, I've been riding all day and all night, and now they're having family troubles. And I've got to sit up all night now and hear their story, and I've got to preach tomorrow morning. But I noticed there was no light in the living room. And so we walked through the darkened hallway into a center room where there was light. And here was her husband, seated by a window with a rifle. And then they told me a very tragic story. They said that a few days before, a blind man had been killed in the police station, and there was a great deal of unrest in the city. And the policeman who was responsible had been discharged and feeling was very high. And he had gone up with the threat that he would organize a group, and come out and destroy the college. The mayor had suggested that the president of the college perhaps should postpone commencement until this thing passed over, but he didn't. He stayed. And that night-- Saturday night, the night that allegedly they were coming-- all the man who lived on campus armed themselves to wait for the coming of the mob. My host said, this is the second long night of our vigil. You have been riding all day and part of the night. So suppose you take a shower and take a nap for a couple of hours, and then you relieve me. [LAUGHTER] Now, I had not had my hands on a rifle since I was a boy with [? a ?] 22. And so I showered, took a nap, and then, at the proper time, I was awakened and I sat at the window with this shotgun, waiting. And in that interval, I had one of the most amazing experiences of a long lifetime. All of my commitment, all the ups and downs of my own journey trying to find a way to affirm the positive and creative meaning of life and the higher dimensions of clean human relations-- I went back to 1922 when I was a boy in college, and I joined the [INAUDIBLE], and walked all the way through the years. And I said, here I am now. What am I going to do? I didn't know. After I admitted that I was able to think about it. I had two choices as I saw it. One, if they turned the corner coming towards this house, I could wait and take my time. And as the drew near and opened fire, I would return the fire until I fell. That was one option. The other option was, if they came, to turn the porch light on, leave the rifle at the window, and walk out on the porch in the light. [? When ?] I settled these two alternatives. I was at rest. I didn't know which one I would do, but they didn't come. 2 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu [LAUGHTER] Pitts Theology Library Emory University The ultimate logic-- and I'm almost through now-- of social action, the ultimate-- every word is crucial. Please. The ultimate logic of social action may be some form of martyrdom. It is of great importance to be clear at a crucial point in a consideration of this kind. The sacrifice of one's life is the primary demand that the individual may make upon himself. No one else can make it for him. It is for his own sake that he must bear this kind of ultimate witness if it is his choice. Here is not an exercise in futility, nor is it relevant that the situation demands this of himself. No. It is what must be done at long last to save his own soul, and keep free and easy access to his own altar in his own heart. What it says essentially is this. On behalf of the human condition with which I have identified, I have done all I know and feel to do to help them remove the things and conditions that prevent their having free access to their own altars. I must find a way to overcome what may, at first glance, seem to be a sickness and an arrogance. But it is to let my own life become an act of redemption not of anybody else's soul, but my own act of redemption for my own soul. The broad supposition here is that the binding unity among all men must be preserved and contained. There is a unity that binds all living things into a single whole. This unity is sensed in many ways. Sometimes when walking alone in the woods far from all the traffic, which makes up the daily experience, a stillness settles in the mind. Nothing stirs. The imprisoned self seems to slip outside its boundaries and the ebb and flow of life is keenly felt. One becomes a part of a single rhythm, a single pulse. Sometimes there is a moment of complete and utter identity with the pain of a loved one or the intensity and anguish are deeply felt. One enters through a single door of suffering into the misery of the whole human race, with no margin left to mark the place one cause one's own. What is felt belongs nowhere, but is everywhere, binding and holding in a tight circle of agony, until all of life is gathered into a single timeless gasp. There are other moments when one becomes aware of the thrust of a tingling joy that rises deep within, until it bursts forth and radiating happiness that bears all of life in its glory and its warmth. Pain, sorrow, grief are seen as joy becoming. That is good. There is nothing new nor old, only the knowledge that what comes as a flooding insight of love binds all living things into a single whole. The filled river spreads and deepens unto live and to love are to do one thing. And yet, there always remains the hard core of the self, blending and withdrawing, giving and pulling back, accepting and rejoicing, yielding and unyielding, what may be this, but the pulsing of a unity that binds all living thing in a single whole. The god of life extending himself from the manifold glory of his creation. There must be free access to his own altar available to all. Therefore, any denial of this possibility and opportunity for others cannot be tolerated. But I have exhausted all other means for aiding in the achievement of such a goal. The last and 3 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu ultimate effort available to the human spirit is the discovery that there are some things in life that are worse than death. And [INAUDIBLE] what I'm saying in this total discussion is that the mystic seeks ways for which he may find his way to that central core in himself, where the great God himself dwells, where an [INAUDIBLE] with the uncreated element. Forgiveness of God is to be found. Pitts Theology Library Emory University This is resident in all men and, indeed, I am persuaded, in all living things. It is at this altar that he gets a clue to making his total life resonant with the holy sound. More and more, the total life comes under the influence and control of that central music. What the mystic discovers for himself must be true for all men, good and bad, saint faith and sinner alike. As the mystic looks out upon the world, he sees there obvious elements in the social condition that keep men and women from the sense of presence within themselves. A way has to be found to restore and discover self [? worth, ?] authentic identity, the chief manifestations of which is a consciousness of the indwelling presence of which the mystic speaks. The call to social action, therefore, must never be an end in itself, but rather a means by which the individual sufferer may get access to his own altar. And this, after all, is the only thing that matters, that God may come to himself in his creation, a time when God will be all and in all. [APPLAUSE] 4 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Mysticism and Social Change (1978, Berkeley, CA) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978 Description An account of the resource The Mysticism and Social Action collection is a series of recordings from the Lawrence Lecture at Berkeley Unitarian Church in California in 1978. In this collection, Thurman illustrates different understandings of mysticism and his own childhood mystical experiences. For Thurman, mystical experience is not an endpoint in religious experience, but rather opens up towards involvement in the social world. Thurman's lecture is also followed by a Q&A discussion in which Thurman touches on related topics such as: the discipline of centering, the personal nature of God, and what mysticism means in a world of suffering and injustice. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Descriptions by Rodell Jefferson III and Anthony Fiddes. AudioWithTranscription Audio that is shown through the 3Play Media embedded interactive transcript Audio with Transcription <iframe width="100%" height="820" frameborder="0" src="/files/players/394-696_B.html" ></iframe> Location The location of the interview, speech, lecture, or sermon Unitarian Church, Berkeley, California Internal Notes Notes for project team Edited - GL 7/17 Original Title Title as transcribed from tape cassette Mysticism and Social Change (Unitarian Church, Berkeley, CA; Lawerance Lecture, Berkeley), 1978 Oct 13, Side B Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 394-696_B Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Thurman, Howard Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="http://pid.emory.edu/ark:/25593/rp8k9">MSS 394</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available <a href="http://pitts.emory.edu/">Pitts Theology Library, Emory University</a> Title A name given to the resource Mysticism and Social Change (continued; Lawrence Lecture), 1978 October 13 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant GEOMETRYCOLLECTION(POINT(-13612507.936726 4567839.7855007)) Description An account of the resource This continuation of Thurman's talk on mysticism and social action finds him illustrating the ultimate principles of the mystic. For the mystic, social action is not an end in itself, but rather is the process by which the mystics removes obstacles blocking the altar in their own heart. The mystic is one who has undergone a journey of self into their central core where God dwells, where the forgiveness of God is found. But what the mystic discovers is not just for themselves, but for all people. The mystic's social action is motivated by the dream of awakening people to that presence within themselves. It is in this work that the mystic redeems their own soul, even in the face of ultimate sacrifice, by remaining loyal to the mystical insight that life is one, and God's love is available to all. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Description by Rodell Jefferson III. https://thurman.pitts.emory.edu/files/original/27f12f4a8fed8f0c7b7583154f7c4b37.pdf d7e3bb7798a4ace7c61a5bdf59a6bf66 PDF Text Text Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu 394-696_A.mp3 Pitts Theology Library Emory University I've become very self-conscious when it comes to making the appropriately correct and sensitive response to anything it involves my own presence and personality because I have a built-in shyness. And fortunately you cannot tell that I'm blushing. [LAUGHING] And the days when I was in seminary and a few years after, the customary pulpit dress was a cutaway and striped trousers. It was the days before the gown in ordinary Protestant churches. The first Sunday in June was the last Sunday on which you wore cutaway and your striped trousers. The first Sunday after Labor Day, you were back into uniform. The 1st of August and every night until the first Sunday in September, after dinner I would put on my cutaway and my striped trousers so that in that long month I could overcome my shyness and be able to wear them on Sunday and think on my feet. So that my heart says thank you and all the other things, but the words I don't have. But thank you very much. I begin by reading as a background for our thinking about mysticism and social action a section from the African Genesis. Never to be forgotten, to be neglected, to be derided is the inconspicuous figure in the quiet back room of civilization. He sits with head bent, silent, waiting, listening to the commotion in the streets. He is the keeper of the kinds. Who is He? We do not know nor shall we ever know. He is a presence, and that is all. But His presence is evident in the last reaches of infinite space, beyond man's probing eye. His presence is guessable in the last reaches of infinite smallness, beyond the magnification of electron or microscope. He is present in all living beings and in all inanimate matter. His presence is asserted in all things that ever were and in all things that will ever be. And as His command is unanswerable, His identity is unknowable. But His most ancient concern is with order. You may sense His presence in a star-scattered sky. As silence, you stand on a lonely hill. There, above you in tightly packed grandeur, the Milky Way, your galaxy, your celestial home. And there beyond Andromeda's faint indication floats your nearest brother in space. 26 quintillion miles away revolves your galaxy's twin in all manner of description and behavior. You may sense his presence in the kind of matter called helium that has always and will forever behave according to the rules and regulations of helium. You may sense his word in the second law of thermodynamics or the pattern behavior of brook trout in a clear New Zealand pond. You may feel his choice in the choice of the reed bunting to defend his territory before his young. Or in the paws of a jeweled fish that saves his dinner and his small fry too. 1 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu You may find His word in the forms of cities and symphonies, of Rembrandts and fir trees, and cumulus clouds. You may read His command in the regularity of turning things, in stars and seasons and tides, and in striking clocks, where bursts the green of the apple orchard. All of a springtime day, there passes His presence. Pitts Theology Library Emory University And here too He passes in the windy fluttering of scarlet leaves, and the calls of the harvesters, where a child is born or a man lies dead. Where a life must go on, though tragedy deny it. Where a farmer replants fields again despoiled by flood or drought. Where a man rebuilds cities that other men destroy. Where tides must ebb as tides have flowed. There, see His footprints. There, there. He does not care about you or about me or about man, for that matter. He cares only for order. And whatever He says, we shall do. He is rising now in civilization's quiet, back room. And He is looking out of the window. I have chosen to address myself to the subject of mysticism and social action for reasons that are both personal and crucial. Personal, because by the accident of birth, if indeed there are accidents in a fundamentally structured universe such as ours appears to be, conditioned me to be an outsider in the community of power where most of the life and death decisions are made which control the common life. If one refuses to accept the assigned category, it means a lifelong struggle for personal identity, as well as one's own place in the total society. Always, it has been urgent for me to validate beyond all ambivalences and all frustrations the integrity of my inner life. Due to the vicissitudes of the social situation in which I have been forced to live in American society, it has been vital for me to find within my self the door that no man could shut, to locate resources that are uniquely mine to which I must be true if the personal enterprise of my life is to be sustained, despite the ravages inflicted upon it by society. To live under siege with the equilibrium and the tranquility of inner peace. To prevent the springs of my being from being polluted by the bitter waters that flow as drainage from the table lands of violence and hatred. To do these two things in even the most limited and circumscribed way is to be strong enough to carry the heavy stones of the spirit which are necessary for the foundations of the kingdom of friendly men underneath a friendly sky. Of such is the ground for my personal stake in the implications of the theme I have chosen. It is crucial because of the radical depersonalization of society, generally, which makes it critical for the sanity of Western culture that a way be found to restore and affirm the place and the significance of persons. Here, I am referring to the widespread disintegration of the mood of tenderness, which makes us falter, hesitate, or become immobile in efforts to understand and to like each other. It is true that there is a kind of understanding abroad, but it is an understanding that invades, that snoops, that threatens, that frightens, that embarrasses. We are victimized by the craftsmen of the public taste, determining for us the kind of food we eat, the soap we use, the make of our car we drive, and the best way to brush our teeth. 2 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu We have made an idol of togetherness. It is the watchword of our time. It is more and more the modern substitute for God. Pitts Theology Library Emory University In the great huddle, we are desolate, lonely, and frightened. Our shoulders touch, but our hearts cry out for understanding, without which there can be for the individual no life, and certainly no meaning. The great cause, even the cause of survival itself, is not enough. There must be found ever creative ways that can ventilate the private soul without floating it away. That can confirm and affirm the integrity of the person in the midst of the collective necessities of existence. It is the insistence of mysticism as it shall be defined for this lecture, that there is within reach of every man a defense against the grand invasions. It says that a man can seek deliberately to explore the inner regions of his own life. He can grow in the experience of solitude, companioned by the minds and spirits of those who as pilgrims of the lonely road have left logs of their journey. He can become at home within by locating in his own spirit the trysting place where he and his god may meet. Here it is, at last, that life may become private, personal, without at the same time being selfcentered. That the little purposes that claw may be absorbed. And the big purpose that structures and redefines. That the individual comes to himself, the wanderer comes home, and the private life is saved, for deliberate and self-conscious involvement. Long before I was acquainted with the term mysticism, and before such a category provided any frame of reference for my mind and thought, the line between the inner and outer in my own experience was not closely drawn. I'm letting you rest and I'm resting. Some years ago, I was down in Missouri at a summer conference. And I'd been scheduled to come in and do two talks on some aspect of mystical religion. I arrived about five o'clock and when I went into the men's room, there were two fellows washing their hands and so forth. And one said to the other, has the man come who's going to take the rabbits out of the hat tonight. And the other fellow didn't know what he's talking about. He said, the man who's going to talk about mysticism. This was the undergraduates idea of what mysticism meant. It's magic, hocus pocus. I suppose he's right. [LAUGHTER] I was not really involved in definitions and categories for determining the meaning of things. As a boy in Florida, I walked along the beach of the Atlantic Ocean in the quiet stillness that can only be completely felt when the murmur of the ocean is still and the tides move stealthily along the shore. I held my breath against the night and watched the stars etch their brightness on the face of the darkened canopy of the heavens. 3 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu I had the sense that all things, the sand, the sea, the stars, the night, and I were one lung through which all of life was breathing. Not only was I aware of a vast rhythm enveloping all, but I was a part of that rhythm. And the rhythm was a part of me. Pitts Theology Library Emory University Many years after, and the growth of my own knowledge, and the probing of the mysteries of religious experience, or any experience for that matter, did I recognize the experience as being in itself religious, and even more definitely as being mystical. It was in such a broad context of experience that meanings preceded definitions and categories, as one of the characters in the story of the African farm replied, when he was asked, do you ever pray. No, I never do. But I'll tell you where I could pray. If there was a wall of rock on the edge of the world, and one rock stretched out far, far into space, and I stood alone upon that rock alone. The stars above me and stars below me. I would not say anything but the feeling would be prayer. Currently, there is a medley of confusion as to the meaning of mysticism, a great and desperate contradict as to the definition. For the practical purposes of this present lecture, I'm using the simple categories as suggested by Mary [INAUDIBLE] in her seminal book, A Survey of Mystical Religion. First, there those mystics to be found in Catholicism, Protestantism, some phases of Hinduism, who stand in a relationship of personal response to a god whom they can see, more or less, in personal terms. And their attitude of response is itself an intensely personal one. Of such is a personal attitude towards their god. The second group regards a mystical experience as a personal response to an infinite, transcending all categories of mind and thought, but which evoke a response of contemplation of reverence and essential well-being. In such experiences, the root of one's being seems to be watered. And the boundaries of the self are somehow transcended or extended until they lose the uniqueness or their particularity. Of such is the doctrine, for instance, of Neoplatonism, the Hebrew Kabbalah, and so forth. The third group may be called the mysticism of the light within. It may be regarded as a kind of epistemology of intuition. One of the great watershed personalities is Meister Eckhart, from whom God hid nothing. Much of the contemporary emphasis on the religious aspects of various kinds of meditation, which focuses upon the search for the beyond within, fall in this category. It is not of very great interest to me, if I may pause a minute, that there are so many things characteristic of the present century, of which you are a part, that are not unlike elements that were present in the first century AD. You think about it. The Roman Empire was disintegrating. For a long stretch of years, there was no rainfall, and the hay crops failed. It's very difficult to find food for the horses, for the army, and the rest of it. A loss of faith in the religion of the empire, which was Stoicism. If a nominal increase, particularly of homosexuality between boys and men, and above all else, the average Roman citizen had lost his sense of responsibility for the fate of the empire. And then coming up out of 4 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu North Africa was a mystery religion which had a profound influence on the induction ceremonies. It crept into Christianity. Pitts Theology Library Emory University How like our time. But that period, that period, created a vacuum into which a new religion came, which was Christianity. Is it too far to hazard a guess that the period through which we are passing now is one which either is, prepare the way for a new dimension of the meaning of religion, or a new religion? I don't know. It worries me some time in my sleep because I don't want to miss it. [LAUGHTER] Much of the contemporary emphasis on the religious aspects of various kinds of meditation focus upon the search for the beyond within. The response to the experience of this form of mysticism is one of obedience and confidence. In the image of Eckhart, there is an uncreated element in the soul of the individual. It is such an insight that declares that it is possible for the individual to touch a divinely formed point of contact with God within his own soul. As Eckhart puts it, the uncreated element, the given element in the soul of a man is in his language, the very God. Rufus Jones, the Quaker exponent of the mysticism of the inner life, has embodied in the Religious Society of Friends, gives the following as a working definition of mysticism. The type of religion which puts the emphasis-- the type of religion which puts the emphasis on the immediate awareness of a relationship with God. On direct and intimate consciousness of what he calls the divine presence. This working definition includes not only a personal attitude towards God, but a recognition of the primary experience of God within the personal inner core of the individual. For our purposes, mysticism is defined as the response of the individual to a personal encounter with God within his own soul. That is my working definition. Such a response is total, affecting the inner quality of the life and its outward expression and its manifestation. Because mysticism deals with the inner personal response to God, it may seem at first look to be life-denying as over against life-affirming. Life-denying because the intent of the person is to withdraw within, to disentangle his life from those things that make for fragmentation or divisiveness for attachment. It cannot be denied that this element is pronounced. The evidence for this is abundant in the literature of mysticism. One of the great words of mysticism perhaps is detachment. But detachment is meant the relaxing of one's whole upon the testimony and the experiences of the senses. It bespeaks intimately of self-denial, even of self-annihilation, or of utter and complete absorption in the experience of union with God. Much of the emphasis upon spiritual exercises is focused on what such experiences will enable the individual to achieve when he is able to rise above and transcend the fierce demand of the senses. These exercises, disciplines of meditation, fasting, a whole series of exercises at the center of which there are many kinds of spiritual disciplines. A whole function of these disciplines is to break the stranglehold of the attachment of the senses, as it seems, 5 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu To be in the world, caught up in all of the processes of life. To be aware of and not fundamentally affected by, seems to be, the emphasis that this kind of mysticism is making. Pitts Theology Library Emory University Much of the spiritual exercises is focused at this point. But one of the things-- and I'll stop interrupting myself. I mean, I have to do it. It's very important to bear in mind in any thought about the function and the relevancy of spiritual disciplines is that it seems as if, whatever the disciplines are or spiritual exercises, depending upon the terms you prefer. The function seems to be to create for the individual the experience of detachment from the whole context of sense data, of which he is a part. But the curiously paradoxical thing is that none of the mystics who are concerned with the efficacy of spiritual disciplines, with the possible exception in one or two places of Eckhart, none of them make the step that, if I fulfill all of the requirements of the discipline, then I will have the experience of presence. It's a very critical point. Some places Eckhart seems to suggest that if he gets-- as he says, if I get rid of creatureliness, if I empty myself of all creatureliness, all the involvement of the ebb and flow of the prison house of the senses, if I can get rid of this, then he says, that God automatically rushes in. But he doesn't see this often. Most of the disciplines make it very clear, that there is no necessity of this relationship between the spiritual exercises and the coming into the life of the spirit of God. That the spiritual exercises, however profound, do not-- and I speak with reverence-- do not have God over a barrel. They do not place upon him in necessity, which is bound, even to stretch himself out of shape in order to meet. The function of the spiritual discipline is to be ready. If perchance I am visited, it is for this reason, also, that great emphasis is placed upon silence and solitude, and becoming still within. The insistence is not so much that something invades the life of man from without, but rather that through quietness and inner solitariness the individual becomes conscious of what it is that he has in him all the time. Be still and know that I am God, is the way the Psalmist puts it. When I was a theological student in Rochester, New York, the central artery of one of the waterways ran under one of the main streets. And one night I was going back to the seminary down Main Street, and traffic was very light. Streetcars had stopped running. It's about 1 o'clock in the morning. And I thought I heard water flowing, but I wasn't sure. And then the next day I was talking with one of my teachers about it. And he said, oh, yes, you were right. A part of the Erie Canal runs under Main Street in Rochester. And when all the traffic is silent, you can hear the flowing of the water. It's flowing all the time. But in the traffic, you can't hear it. This is what he's talking about. What is it then that the mystic claims that he experiences? For him, it is not merely emotional, though the feeling tone is deep and pervasive. To the mystic, what he experiences is not merely a 6 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu general truth or truth in general, but rather a profound certainty that he is caught up in a vital experience of truth itself. Pitts Theology Library Emory University He crosses over into an area of experience beyond the timberline of the frontier of his senses, and yet it is through this frontier that his spirit is swept. He is unable to give a satisfactory objective testimony concerning his experience. It is not unlike any experience of revelation, of awareness, of new birth. George Fox declared after his experience on Pendle Hill, when he came down from the hill, all the world had a new spell. And one of the spirituals of my childhood, my feet look new, my hands look new when I came out of the wilderness leaning on the Lord. It's the same basic idea. For me, the importance of the mystic's claim does not rest on the degree to which he is able to establish empirical verification of his experience. And here is the interesting dilemma for this kind of religion. The mind insists that all experiences fall into an order, into some kind of system of meaning so that the mind can think about it. What the mystic experiences within has to belong somehow to that which is also without. It is reasonable, then, for the individual to expect to validate his claim of truth by his experience of life in the world. What he experiences in the world must not seem to be radically different from the quality and the kind that takes place within. The key to me, then, is the mystic's claim of having in his encounter touch that which is vital, total, and absolute. He experiences ultimate meaning, but he experiences it, and he is a creature in time and space, limitations and finitudes. May not be then that what he discovers to be inherent in him is also inherent in all of life? To the extent to which this is true for the mystic, to that extent will he look out upon the world now seeing not merely manifestations, things, events, nature, but also seeing at a deeper level what he himself has seen in his own inward parts. The world now, external to himself, becomes pregnant with truth and literally the creation of God. It is possible, then, that what the mystic sees and experiences is his response to God, he may determine and discover in his experiences of life. Therefore, the mystical experience is only in a limited way life-denying. It becomes in its most profound sense life-affirming. It becomes quite conceivable then that if there are purposes in the world, if there are purposes in the mind of God the Creator of life, the Creator of the living substance, the Creator of existence itself, if I may enter into communion with such a God, such a Creator, then as a result of that communion I may be exposed to the vision of His purposes. The degree to which I respond to that vision do I participate formally and deliberately and consciously in those purposes. It is this insistence then upon the empirical or practical validation of his experience that the mystic is under the necessity to remove from his fellows. And here I make a turn in my thinking- to remove from his fellows whatever there is or maybe that prevents them from realizing their own experience of the truth within them. It is the mystic's conviction that God bottoms existence, and is manifest in His creation and in all His creatures. 7 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Pitts Theology Library Emory University There are certain things, conditions, attitudes, or experiences that may separate one from the experiencing of this truth. Whatever such conditions are, they must be regarded as positive and evil. From the point-of-view of the mystic, they tend to prevent the individual from this experience of truth as defined in the categories of his religion. Social action, therefore, is an expression of resistance against whatever tends to or separates one from the experience of God, who is in the very ground of his being. This is where I'm coming out. Here, the concern is not with a particular creed, doctrine, or dogma. The mystic is not fundamentally concerned with such categories. He sees clearly that all such categories are definitions of the mind. They reflect the teachings, the culture patterns, the particular social orientation of the individual. They represent what the mind does when it seeks to rationalize the profound experiences of the spirit. They are what the mind distills from the ceaseless ferment of the ebb and flow of the fluidity of experiences as life is being lived. They do not represent the truth of what one experiences, such as only necessary when one undertakes to talk about it or to explain one's experience of the truth. Therefore, the mystic's concern with the imperative of social action is not merely to improve the condition of society. It is not merely to feed the hungry, not merely to relieve human suffering and human misery. If this were all in and of itself, it will be important, surely. But this is not all. The basic consideration has to do with the removal of all that prevents God from coming to himself in the life of the individual. Whatever there is that blocks this calls for action. In this endeavor, at first glance, it may seem to be an act of super arrogance. Indeed, it may seem to be utterly presumptuous to claim to know what it is that stands between a man and the experiences of his own reality at the core of his being. Thus, the mystic begins with himself. It is crucial for him to remove from his own life that which blocks the awareness of God and himself. The mystic recognizes that he shares in the collective ills of this society. He participates in the collective guilt. In him is mirrored the very life of the society of which he is a part, but he must begin with himself. For the mystic's social action is sacramental because it is not an end in itself. Always it is the individual who must be addressed, located, and released underneath his misery and his hunger and his destitution. That whatever it may be blocking his way to his own center where his alter may be found, this must be removed. My simple point is, that whatever there is that blocks the way to my own altar must be removed-or to his altar must be removed. For if your eye is a hindrance, pluck it out, says the book. When social action is viewed from this perspective, a very crucial problem arises. The problem that the victims of injustice, for instance, face is not unlike that which faces the perpetrators of the deeds that offend. The assumption here is that both parties, the sufferer and the offender, are both cut off from their own altars. I am under obligation to identify with each. It is much easier within the context of 8 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu mystical piety to identify with the sufferer, the hungry, the poor, the neglected than with those whose power privilege and insensitivity are largely responsible for the social ill. But I must not forget that the ill that a man does to others stands between that man and that man's own altar. Pitts Theology Library Emory University Of course, of this he may not be aware. One of the radical functions of social action is to make the offender aware of this. How may this be done? Some form of shock must be used. An action that will give to the offender an acute sense of the same kind of insecurity that his action is creating for other people in the society. It is here that we see starkly revealed the moral relevancy of such devices, for instance, as a boycott. What moral suasion and conscience were unable to do over a long time interval of pressure, the boycott may shock into an acute awareness of what is at stake. In the early days of Operation Breadbasket, I was in Chicago for a weekend. Jesse Jackson asked me to attend and to address the large Saturday morning weekly meeting. It is a very impressive gathering-- white, black, laborers, professionals, clergy, lay people, many people. Just before my introduction, four people came in as a group. Immediately the chairman was asked to report-- the chairman of the group. It developed that a merchant in the general area was selling groceries and other foodstuffs that were spoiled and not edible. 9 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Mysticism and Social Change (1978, Berkeley, CA) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978 Description An account of the resource The Mysticism and Social Action collection is a series of recordings from the Lawrence Lecture at Berkeley Unitarian Church in California in 1978. In this collection, Thurman illustrates different understandings of mysticism and his own childhood mystical experiences. For Thurman, mystical experience is not an endpoint in religious experience, but rather opens up towards involvement in the social world. Thurman's lecture is also followed by a Q&A discussion in which Thurman touches on related topics such as: the discipline of centering, the personal nature of God, and what mysticism means in a world of suffering and injustice. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Descriptions by Rodell Jefferson III and Anthony Fiddes. AudioWithTranscription Audio that is shown through the 3Play Media embedded interactive transcript Audio with Transcription <iframe width="100%" height="820" frameborder="0" src="/files/players/394-696_A.html" ></iframe> Location The location of the interview, speech, lecture, or sermon Unitarian Church, Berkeley, California Original Title Title as transcribed from tape cassette Mysticism and Social Change (Unitarian Church, Berkeley, CA; Lawerance Lecture, Berkeley), 1978 Oct 13 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 394-696_A Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Thurman, Howard Title A name given to the resource Mysticism and Social Change (Lawrence Lecture), 1978 October 13 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="http://pid.emory.edu/ark:/25593/rp8k9">MSS 394</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available <a href="http://pitts.emory.edu/">Pitts Theology Library, Emory University</a> Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant GEOMETRYCOLLECTION(POINT(-13612507.936726 4567839.7855007)) Description An account of the resource This first part of Thurman’s sermon on mysticism addresses different definitions and experiences of mysticism and how they relate to social change. He begins by talking about his place in a radically depersonalizing Western society, and how refusal to accept assigned categories in that society results in lifelong struggle. He elaborates on his first experiences with mysticism, being alone on a Florida beach as a child and feeling the vast rhythm of life as he looked up at the sky. It is the sentiment of this image that characterizes Thurman’s view of mysticism: a highly personal practice of quiet reflection where the obstacles that muddle the awareness of God are removed. And it appears that it is through this removal of those obstacles that social change arises. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Description by Anthony Fiddes Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-10-13