1 10 4 https://thurman.pitts.emory.edu/files/original/7ac14e7513bfac546f9332a507303ab5.pdf bb4110abb82ec8cd67e981665e6212fb PDF Text Text Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu 394-306_A.mp3 Pitts Theology Library Emory University --of modern man. It takes on another character. It depends upon what you're looking at and how you define and describe it, is whether or not you condemn it or not. And then what I condemn in you, I say as I look at it in me, that I'm smart or I'm clever. I'm intelligent. I'm something else. Now all of this is by way of background. Because what I want us to do for the time that we have this afternoon now, is to see what are some of the techniques that people use in order to survive in situations and conditions in which there seems to be no plan for their survival. In other words, what kind of-- because life is a lie. Remember way back 1,000 years ago, you were talking about this. Life is a lie. And it is the nature of life just to seek the thing that nourishes it and keeps the going. Now When you are in a situation that your back is against the wall, the same principle is operating. You're fighting for your life. Now with people who live with their backs against the wall, what are some of the things that come to their rescue that makes survival possible? Now it is-- one more decision. When I was-- oh, maybe it was last year or two [INAUDIBLE] the Conference of Christians and Jews, the national organization, had a-- Nelson Rockefeller was the honorary chairman that year. They always select some money honcho to be the national chairman. [LAUGHTER] I used to work for them. [LAUGHS] And he came out here for a luncheon meeting, a dinner meeting. He flew out and was flying back that night. And they selected about a dozen people-- President of Standard Oil, President of Crocker Bank, President of Bank of America, President of somebody else, somebody else, somebody else, and a federal judge who was presiding. And somebody invited me to come along. And they wanted me to have about 10 minutes to talk. I was preaching. [LAUGHTER] And they wanted me to have my 10 minutes of talk in response to Mr. Rockefeller, you see. All right. I started out-- and this is a personal thing-- Sue says, what are you going to talk about? I said, I don't have anything to talk about. But I'll talk 10 minutes about what Nelson Rockefeller does not say. Yes. [LAUGHTER] So she said, well, at least you ought to shine your shoes-[LAUGHTER] --so you won't disgrace her. Oh, forgive me. 1 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu That's nice. Pitts Theology Library Emory University Anyway, I went up and we-- there were about a dozen or so. And we sat around or stood at a table like that. The federal judge-- I'll think of his name in a moment-- sat here. Mr. Rockefeller sat to his right. I sat to his left. And then the other men sat around us. Well, the judge and I exchanged greetings, and he introduced Nelson Rockefeller. And I went about my business and let them talk. But I'd finished eating. Then I played a game. I began studying the faces of every man around to see what kind of animal he reminded me of. [LAUGHTER] And I was about 3/4 around, went into the concentration. And I heard Thurmond, and I looked up now. And I thought these millionaire hand traps. [INAUDIBLE] And the judge was doing this. He switched the whole program on me. And I was to talk before Nelson Rockefeller. Oh. And I didn't even hear him introduce me. I was just lost in this game when I was playing. So I stood up. And I had to get myself together. It scared me within an inch of my life. Because I didn't know what on earth I was going to talk about. So I began quoting. I tried to quote something-- something familiar, something maybe like, a Psalm or something. Right in the middle of it, forgot it. And I said, of course, all of you know-Now that was [INAUDIBLE]. [LAUGHTER] And I finally wandered along, and still nothing happened. Then something like a comet from outer space-- and I had it. And this is what it was. I said every man seated around this table is a minority. I said, in the first place, every man around this table is either rich or he represents well. And the vast majority of people on this planet are poor. Every man around this table is white. And the vast majority of people on this planet are colored. Every man around the table is either Jew or Christian. And in combination, it is one of the minority religions in comparison. But then I pulled it up to the business. And then, you are a minority within that minority if you believe in what brings us here. And that means that if you do every man, woman, boy, girl, old, or young, that you can influence them, all of them, must work at this thing day or night. Or else we all are lost [INAUDIBLE] in high weeds. Then I sat down. All right. Then they called on Nelson Rockefeller. And I'll never forget it. He reached in his pocket, took out his speech. And he said, here it is. My secretary typed it up, brought it to me at the airport, or wherever it was. So I prepared. But after listening to what this man had to say, what on earth can somebody like me say? So for the next 10 or 15 minutes he kept wrestling with this thing. I never thought of myself as a man minority. And he tried to imagine what the feeling of that thing was. And that was his speech. Well, I got out of this-- 2 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu [LAUGHTER] Pitts Theology Library Emory University --as fast as I could. And then there are a lot of other things that go along this story that followed months and years after. But that is illustrative of the thing that I am talking about. Now the question-- the question all of you, could be all of us [INAUDIBLE]. What do you say, or what is your kind of faith or your kind of religion, or your kind of whatever it is say in your own right and name to the person with his back against the wall? Not what the organization you represent says, but what do you say? Now maybe you say exactly what your organization says. I don't know. But that's the question. Now-Excuse me. [INAUDIBLE]. Isn't it important that you know that if you are saying what your organization said, that it is really either what you truly believe as an individual or that you are merely representing the organization's point of view as distinguished from your own individual connection? If-- if you make it clear. Yeah. And then we get lost. And that's where the bite is. Yeah, right. You see? How can you have an organizational response to a person whose back is against the wall? I don't know. But you believe me, Karen. Mm-hmm. [LAUGHS] Now that's not nice. [LAUGHTER] [INAUDIBLE] Yes. Now let's-- see, one of the marvelous things about thinking is that you take your problem-whatever it is-- and keep pushing, and pushing, and pushing it, and pushing it, until you see the universal implications of it, until you put your problem in the widest, broadest, deepest context that you are capable of. And if you do that, then you can-- for your solution, you draw on these resources. 3 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Now this what you do in concert-- for instance, when you have a problem-- you're a professional. Now you're coming back to me. [LAUGHTER] Pitts Theology Library Emory University Now you-[INTERPOSING VOICES] Now you're a professional. Now in the first place, if you'd analyze the thing that brings a person to see why do they come-- all right-- well, you know in the first place that they have a problem. But the first thing that you do with a problem-- you do it naturally-- is to try to locate it and define it. The classic book on this-- let me give you a reference-- a very simple book written 35 years ago by John Dewey, How We Think, a simple, terrifying of all the rancid minds, but from a fresh mind. Now when you locate your problem, then a lot of times that's your rule, to help them [INAUDIBLE] help them locate what's wrong. They don't know what's wrong. You help them locate and define it. Then sometimes to locate and define it is to solve it. If I come up in this room at night and I hear a scraping noise around there, and I come on around-- and all kinds of things come into my mind living in San Francisco when I hear that odd sound. And then I discover, let us say, that the window was open and the wind was making the curtain do that. Now when I locate it, I solve it. See, to locate it and define it, sometimes is to solve it. But suppose that just isn't the case. You haven't located that. And then I draw all of my personal resources, my wisdom, my experience. And there's nothing in my experience that can help me. So I go to somebody who has more experience, who has a richer resource. That's you. And you begin to make suggested solutions. And as you talk to them, one person, she said, well, you know, now my mother seemed to think-- now my mother told me that. And I tried it, but it didn't work. Or my husband's-- it just didn't work. So you go back again and you keep-- and they turn to you because you have a richer reservoir of suggested solutions than they have. Hence, you're the council. Yes? And what I was going to add is you keep on talking and you keep discovering that those things that you denied, dismissed, could be refocused. Right. Right. Right. But this is an insight that you share with them. You see? And sometimes, you see, once this happens they don't need you anymore. That's right. You know? No, you do. Hey. 4 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu [LAUGHTER] Pitts Theology Library Emory University You know, they can go on their way. Now once the person settles on what seems to be the most promising suggestion, then there's one other step. And that's to do a dry run. Test it out. So the person you're talking to may ask you a lot of detailed questions. Now suppose he says this. Suppose this happens. And then after you do that, then you corroborate. You test it out and experience it. Now it seems me that is it is this framework that we are trying to put in the hands of the people who you're trying to help. This is what we do. And that's why you can't do anything for them. But you're trying to do something that enables them to get their hands on techniques and procedures that would do for them what you see can be done. You say to yourself, if knowing what you know and you were in their place, this is what you'd do. But they don't know. You see? So there certain elemental things they resort to that are available to people who are desperate. Now one of the things is the positive, and creative, and often explosive effect of fear on the consciousness of the individual, the fear. Now I want you to listen to this. And bear in mind what we've talked about. If you talking about techniques for survival when your back is against the wall, and you have got-- [INAUDIBLE] and you're fighting for your life, what is the role that fear plays in that circumstance? Now that's what I want you-- all right. Now we're ready. [AUDIO PLAYBACK] - Continuing our thinking together about Jesus and the disinherited, and this morning we are dealing again with the question of fear. Fear not that was the word. Fear, the great companion of the poor, the creeping, slinking hound ever on the trail of the be-deviled seekers for [INAUDIBLE] from oppression and wrong. The poor know fear, fear of a special breed, the poor. Jesus knew all of this. His days were nurtured in great hostilities, focused upon his kind, the sons of Israel. There was no moment in all his years when he was free. Sometimes in lonely places, beneath burning stars, wrapped in the silence of the hills, he felt eternal stirrings at his roots and knew that always beneath him, above, beyond, within, the god of life kept watch. This was the truth he felt. Fear not them who kill the body, and after that there is nothing more that they can do. But fear God. That is it. The fear of God, the fear of man-- which shall it be? The one lays bare the heart of reverence, pours wave after wave of healing balm upon the broken and forlorn, makes strong the failing [INAUDIBLE], renews the mind, and affirms the craving weary. It frees the self of [INAUDIBLE] care, nourishing the life with strange new courage. It is what the birds know as their wings lift them high above the planes. It is the quiet trust glimpsed in the eyes of carefree children. It is the blushness blossoming of roadside flowers, or the gliding confidence of fish through quiet or troubled waters. It is what burns in the prophet's eyes, or glows in the tranquil spirits of those who have come through great tribulation, the fear of God, the beginning of wisdom. Before the altars of its surging fire, the fear of man is rank and vile, the great blasphemy, the supreme sacrilege, the final corrosion. 5 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Pitts Theology Library Emory University Fear not, says Jesus. Let all the sons of man echo in their hearts the triumphant word. But fear is the emotional response to danger. It is the response to that which threatens the severing of the link that binds a man to the future. The future. And that is why the fear in the sense in which those who are on the outer rim of the common life, those who are not nurtured by the overall guarantee that gives to them a place of security in their world, summarize all of their reaction to fear as an atmosphere and a climate by the punitive focal fear of violence and death. Now one of the things that we observe when we look at fear as it operates in this fringe world-this fringe dimension of the common life that includes the vast population of this earth-- is this fear push far enough becomes the courage of despair. [INAUDIBLE] Fear crowded becomes a courage of despair. Now this kind of courage is grim, fierce, intense, desperate, inner destructive. It is like the-- let's see. It is like the electric light bulb that just outburns itself just before it goes out. Those you who are familiar with bulb stealing will know what I mean. [LAUGHTER] Now fear has an effect on the [INAUDIBLE]. It's so obviously to say. Now listen very carefully, if you please. - But it's important to say. Those who have been studying the body and studying the mind and studying the emotions tell us that fear causes certain bodily changes, certain changes in the chemistry. I'm not wise enough to say any more than that. I remember in seminary, my senior year one of my classmates preached a sermon on fear. And he talked about his childhood on a farm in Indiana. And his father kept bees. And he described how the bees always attacked if you were afraid. And now this may not be scientifically correct. I just have to quote him. He said that when you are frightened and you're working with bees, you generate what he called acetic acid. I don't know what kind of acid that is. [LAUGHTER] And nor do I know how to spell it, even. [LAUGHTER] But this is what he said. And the acetic acid appears in the moisture in the skin. Is very visible. The moisture may be invisible, but the bees know this. And they move in for the kill. [LAUGHTER] Now the response of the organism to these changes expresses itself in two positive dimensions. One, the dimension of flight. Flight. And the other is to resist, to fight. And it is with this letter 6 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu that that fear push finally becomes a current of despair. Now the tragic thing is that when the response is flight for the master, there is nowhere to run. That's it. Nowhere to go. Pitts Theology Library Emory University - For flight means nearly escape from the particular expression of the attitude of the environment. It does not mean as escape from the attitude. For wherever you run, you encounter the manifestation of the same thing. That's right. - Now Jesus understood this, I think. And he made and attacked upon it not by singling out this particular thing and dealing with it. But he made a fundamental attack upon the experience of fear, and the kind of insistence which is fundamental to his religious insight and his religious experience. I do not know what the psychologists or the psychiatrists would say about how the poor or the weak or the desperate can reduce to manageable units their fear, so that in the presence of their fear their lives may be lived with some measure of meaning and dignity. I do not know how they would grapple with this problem. There is enough difficulty involved in dealing with the particular kinds of fears with which all of us are more or less familiar. So I don't know what they would say. But I know about the religion of Jesus. And they always come out of the same place. But the religion of Jesus says that there is an answer to the fundamental problem that is raised in this kind of fear. And that problem is, who am I? How can I escape the fear that is created by the bondage of the stereotype? The bondage of the stereotype. Which tends always to nullify, to cancel out the private significance of the individual, the personal worth of the individual independent of any kind of classification, any kind of status, any kind of position, any kind of judgment that is passed upon the individual by the prestige bearing or non-prestige bearing elements in the environment. How-[END PLAYBACK] I want to take a minute. Escaping the bondage of the spirit, so that I am not I. But I am a member of a class or a group. That works both ways. It's funny. Now I don't know any answers to any of this business. Gee, whiz. But I remember years ago when Roland Hayes was skyrocketing. Someone wrote a biography of his life. And, I don't know, I guess I was in college or seminary or somewhere when the book came out. And in it, this person quoted a conversation that he had with Roland Hayes' mother. I could see myself that Saturday afternoon sitting up in my room in the dormitory, reading this thing, and how I got up and walked up and down. And this is what Roland Hayes' mother said. This is the other side of the thing that I'm talking about. She said all these things, the singing for the king or the queen or whatever, all of it was good, she said. It was wonderful. But Roland, remember you are a negro. All right. Now when I read that, I got out of my skin and walked around in my bones. [LAUGHTER] 7 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu I said now, what? Who wrote this thing? What? What? What on earth is going on? This is vicious. And I think they're putting words in this old lady's mouth. This is my reaction at 21, or whatever I was. And then years after, it began to dawn upon me based upon my own experience, that wherever else I landed out here, I couldn't get out there without that first admission. Pitts Theology Library Emory University That's right. You see, I had to just state it in a categorical cliche, if I can put two words together. In order for me to be at home everywhere, I had to be at home somewhere. I had to be at home some-- and this is what the old lady saw. Mm-hmm. OK. But when I was 21 or 22, I couldn't see that. I thought she was saying stay in your place. She wasn't saying that at all. You see? So that in arresting what I call whatever it is, the stereotype-I'll use a phrase there. Bondage. Yeah, bondage is a stereotype. It is a very significant phrase, a very significant use of the term. And my mind was going through a very narrow passage there. Because there's a difference, you see, between the bondage of the stereotype-- whether it's economic or social or whatever it is [INAUDIBLE]-- and therefore be imprisoned by it. The key is bondage. Right. Than to lay claim to your own root, and standing with that as a solid foundation go forth. Go forth. Now this is-- now the difference between that and a lot of other things you're going through now, I can't deal with anything that threatens my life if I don't know who I am. If I don't know who I am, then I-- so that I can't take my stand to affirm whatever it is that is I, was which my environment has to deal, the world has to deal. In other words, what I'm really saying-- and I don't want to wear it out-- is that if I have no sense of self, then I have to be defined by anybody who is big enough to define me. So I'm out there [INAUDIBLE] will you tell me who I am, please? Yeah. And you can be defined several times. That's right. That's right. In an hour. That's right. That's right. Give me a name. And the tragedy, the social tragedy that people who are on the periphery of society-- the tragedy is that because they're there, they seem to themselves to be anonymous. Anonymous. And when you help them define themselves, your work is just then beginning. I come back to something you said the other day, when these people 8 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu who now are sitting at the table and are doing something above budget whether they spell the word or not. That's right. Yes, please. Pitts Theology Library Emory University Now that's the first major step. But we don't know how to do the thing that follows from that, so that the new sense of self that is initiated by giving them a seat at the table and a pencil must be given a content that they've never had. And we have so-- we don't know. We don't know. We haven't-- I don't know what the word is. But we have very few skills for helping them to develop this content. And then we also-- the bondage of the stereotype comes in right in that spot. Because the people who are now supposed to help them-- not people like me anymore, but people within the system, the school districts, and the people like that who didn't think they were capable in the first place. But the mandate said they had to be doing it. So that's the last person to look-- not people like me. We've been shut out. We can't go into the social institution. So they're victims of the bandage, because they don't think they can do it in the first place. And so because they don't think they do it, they are not helping them to. So the only thing they know how to do is to hold this pencil up and says I won't sign off. Because after all, I'm the budget chairman. Yeah. You see, and the whole new kind of technique has to be developed. Because if there were no roadblocks at all to keep us from doing this-Exactly. --would we know how to help them put in this thing? You need professionals. You know? Because we've had very little opportunity to learn how to do this. You see? Because those of us who are used to this, we are still trying to do it. [INTERPOSING VOICES] We're trying to-- one of the jokes in our family after old Nixon became president-[LAUGHTER] That's the joke in the country a while back. Oh, it was. [LAUGHTER] 9 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Oh, for one of the great jokes that whenever anybody was down, you wanted to give them one of this. Yeah. [LAUGHTER] That's cute. Pitts Theology Library Emory University [INAUDIBLE]. So guess what Nixon said to Pat the first morning they woke up in the White House? Pat, I've been president one night. Or like the man in my town who is the showman, who was an old rich fellow. And he got a Locomobile. Nobody in this room is old enough to know what a Loco-- but it was a [INAUDIBLE]. I mean, you had to be in the chips to have a Locomobile. Big thing, seven passenger. And if it didn't sing in a second, it wasn't a Locomobile. [LAUGHTER] That was the phrase. So when this man dies, he loved his chauffeur so that he give him this automobile. [INAUDIBLE] Now when this man-- after that, whenever he drove the automobile he had a cigar in his mouth even though he didn't smoke. Because he didn't want anyone to think he was the chauffeur. [LAUGHTER] Now this is what I'm talking about. You see? So that if tonight-- if tonight it were possible for all of us to get to the pencil holder-- and let us say the pencil holder was without suspicion of us. How on earth will we go about supplying this thing that they would need? And fortunately-- and I say fortunately as I break my heart-- we don't have the opportunity to make the discovery of our own bankruptcy at that point. That's right. But we had better get ready. You know? Because over night there can be the death of one person-That's right. The domino effect [INAUDIBLE]. --or 10 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Jesus and the Disinherited (1976) AudioWithTranscription Audio that is shown through the 3Play Media embedded interactive transcript Audio with Transcription <iframe width="100%" height="820" frameborder="0" src="/files/players/394-306_A.html" ></iframe> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 394-306_A Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Thurman, Howard Title A name given to the resource Afternoon Seminar, Concludes Morning, Jesus and the Disinherited VII, VIII (Jesus and the Disinherited) [Side A], 1976 Feb 28 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2/28/76 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="http://pid.emory.edu/ark:/25593/rp8k9">MSS 394</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available <a href="http://pitts.emory.edu/">Pitts Theology Library, Emory University</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a rel="license" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/"><img alt="Creative Commons License" style="border-width:0" src="https://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc/4.0/80x15.png" /></a><br />This work is licensed under a <a rel="license" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/">Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International License</a>. 2019. Description An account of the resource In this recording, Thurman discusses techniques used for surviving seemingly unsurvivable situations. He then tells an anecdote about a time he had his back against the wall, and how he got out of it. Thurman states that if one can’t differentiate between their organization and their self, then they’ll become lost. Thurman also advises on ways to solve one's problems. He says to take one’s problem, and to put it in the widest context possible to be able to fully understand it and find a solution. Or, one can locate their problem and then define it. And once they have done that they can go to someone else with more experience, and then go and try out possible solutions. Thurman then circles back to the feeling of having one’s back against the wall, and how to escape it. He talks about the fear one feels, and how it creates a fight of flight response. With flight, one runs away from a scenario, but fight is actively resisting. Jesus fought by attacking the idea of fear. Thurman concludes by analyzing the fear and cage that stereotypes create. He states that if one has no sense of self, then they will get defined by someone else. Stereotypes make people feel like they can’t do things, and then others start believing the same things, and everyone becomes trapped by these stereotypes. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Mary Sellers Conley fear Jesus Self-identity stereotypes https://thurman.pitts.emory.edu/files/original/2e6687379a668b79a79faf89356d5c9e.pdf 8f1761b5d9e5744c4361d9b823f70879 PDF Text Text Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu 394-306_B.mp3 Pitts Theology Library Emory University Well, when first went to Howard, we lived on the campus. And there's a picket fence separating our yard from the sidewalk. The main drag in Howard came down this way. Then there's a sidewalk that came down by our house up to 6th Street here. So the Western Union boys would come down that long drag on their bicycles, turn here, and ride along outside that picket fence. And my dog Barrymore always played a game with these, where usually by the middle of the morning, he would come on and take his position on our front porch. And he'd watch Western Union boys coming all the way down the drag. And he'd watch him. And when he turned to come down opposite our picket fence, Barrymore would meet him in the corner and bark him all the way down to the end of our yard, and then get back up to wait for the next one. And one day we had a terrible snowstorm. And there were 4 foot banks of snow in the corners. Barrymore played his usual game. And he was running, and the momentum carried him up the hill, up, up this bank of snow, and he was over the fence before we knew it. And there was nothing between him and the bicycles. And he began screaming. He panicked. And I ran out to see whether somebody was hurt. And nobody was hurting. But when he found that there was no barrier between him and-- he didn't know what to do. Now, you know we might wake up tomorrow morning. You can't beat the manipulator of this universe. You may wake up tomorrow morning, and here it is. And I'm not sure how you'd go about supplying what we see the pencil holder needs so that finally he won't get a cramp in his hand holding the pencil so that he can't get it down to write. Yes? Do we have to separate these two processes? What burden do we bear to coalesce the process of sense of self within the context? You see, I think-- if I understand your question-- you see, I think a part of the definition of the sense of self is to work out its meaning in all of these connections, not only-- and then in the context of all my relationships. Yes. Excuse me, I didn't mean to-- But you see, the way our society is arranged, very rarely are we called upon to work it out in the dimension that I'm talking about. Yeah. That's-- You see? But now and then-- now and then. But in some ways, we can't anticipate, some ways we cannot anticipate, we are occasionally thrown into a position where this is our opportunity. Yes. And I want to be sure that I know what I'm talking about-- I mean, I've said what I'm thinking. In anticipation of the new sense of self within the context of the member of the parent advisory committee, we begin with the pencil in hand on some dry runs, and all of that. Maybe I'm just being idealistic. That's what I'm trying to say. 1 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Well, on that point-- here again, in the early realities of the war here and the migration, a group of women-- what did they call themselves? The Bay Area something-something female-- no, they didn't call it female something. But it was made up of women. And they staked out one of their things. That was to help the people who'd come in from Alabama, Mississippi, West Texas, and so forth, who had never voted-- to help them learn what to do, how to take the pencil down. Pitts Theology Library Emory University So they went down to the city hall and borrowed four or five voting machines, put them up in the old Booker T. Washington Center, and every Sunday afternoon, they were there teaching all the people who lived all around [INAUDIBLE] everywhere who would come there on Sunday to teach them how to manipulate the voting machine. Now, another illustration of another aspect of this thing. I was going from Texarkana, Texas down to Houston. And my train got into someplace like Big Sandy, Texas about 2 o'clock in the morning. And you had to wait there about three hours to get the trains going on through to Houston. I got off the train. And then out of nowhere this man began walking with me. He was Negro fellow. And he said, are you coming here to stay some time? And I said, no, sir. I'm just waiting for the next train. It's coming by in about two hours and a half. And he said, well, this is the last train that comes until your train comes. And [INAUDIBLE] every train is late, because this afternoon the deputy Sheriff was killed. And the town is wild. They're going through and it's a dangerous time for any Negro to be anywhere. And so I came down to meet the train. So if you're a stranger, you don't have anywhere to stay, I know where I could take you. And he said, since you are not staying, I want to tell you what you must do. Now you sit in the railway station in the light with your suitcase at your feet. So if the mob sweeps through you, they will know you don't belong here. You had nothing to do with this. You're-- and if you have to get some information from a ticket agent, and you go to the window and you ask him something and he doesn't answer, don't give him any lip. Because then he might blow your brains out. So you just sit here. Well, I was [INAUDIBLE] got [INAUDIBLE] and I moved to the steps, had my bag in front of me. And I was still in the light. You know how you feel the presence of a person? Because we aren't too far removed from our animal history. And you can sense the presence of a thing that you can't see. And I felt this person. And then I heard these words-- if I was a Negro. And he got that far, and he emerged out of the shadows in the light of the window so the light feel across his face. He was an old Texan without the dignity of the [? Carl Hand. ?] I mean, he was a run-down somewhat demolished man. And he said, now, if I was a Negro, I'd about this voting business, I tell you what I'd do. He was still looking out that way. He wasn't looking at me. He said, you know, this Negro dentist lost his case at the Supreme Court, because he was trying to get the Supreme Court to break the back of the Texas primaries so the Negro could vote. He lost. Now he's going to keep going until one day a court is going to turn yes. And then every 2 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Negro in Texas who registers can vote. And all decent people like me will be put out in the Gulf of Mexico. Pitts Theology Library Emory University And then he said, now, that is going to happen. Now, if I was a Negro, this is what I would do. I listened to him. Every time the white people voted, I would have booths set up in every Negro lodge, every Negro church, every Negro barber shop, every Negro restaurant, and we'd all vote on the same people that the white people voted on uptown. And then when the voting was over, we would declare our own little people who had won and tear the ballots up, because it wouldn't mean a damn thing. But the next time I'd do it. And you know why I'd do that? Because you see, all of us would get the [? habit. ?] Because when the Supreme Court finally says you can vote if you don't have the [? habit, ?] by the time you get to heaven we'll find another way. Heaven [INAUDIBLE] And he went on out down the railroad platform and disappeared. Now, this is the principle that I'm gonna talk about. This man saw it. Now back to the point. If suddenly we had free and easy access to the people with the pencils, could we have them supply the things that they would need to bring the pencil down and do this? I believe so. I really do. I think that's my dilemma. That's how you got to me last night. Because that's really what I'm going through. It's a trust relationship. It's a trust. It's the real conviction that the high expectations-- people are victims of low expectations-- the manner in which they were selected, the manner in which they were elected, appointed, or anointed. That's one of the things-- how did they get there. So I want to really look at the whole thing. I want to look at how did they get there in the first place, and to get them to see the dynamics of their placement. Then the second, I'm concerned about how they were oriented. And I really feel the kind of orientation that we could do together-- the person who has been selected-- that there should be some tutoring. There should be kind of mutual tutoring. How did you feel when you went in this really roleplaying the advisory councils they'd had before? And really saying that I really want to look at this. I want to look at your role as a member of this group, as a decision maker. And really, I want to take a look at the kind of guidelines that you have to go by. And let's read through those guidelines together. And that's really helping me, because I want to know, too. I want to know how to do this, because this is a very brand-new role that I will be playing. So somehow or another, I see a need to have a mutual conversation and communication with the person who's got this new position. And then I want to do something tryouts, some testing out, some role-playing, something really challenging, where I play the role of the principal, or 3 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu whoever that is they always have so much trouble with, challenging them and talking down, and then getting them to realize how we can communicate with each other. Almost a play-acting kind of thing, where I play a brand-new role with them, which I was too busy to do the last go round, but have plenty of time to do now-- so busy fighting something else. Yeah. Right. You were going to say something? Pitts Theology Library Emory University But now this is really the main thing. That is, how do we help people to do this role? But most of all, how do we make professionals aware of how to do it where we're not slobbering over it? Yes, I want to say something similar to that. I have an experience similar to that. And I've been in a quandary as to how to develop this trust and how to eliminate the barrier for our communications. And on the other hand, we have individuals who have demonstrated at a certain level that they can now become councillors. And what I wanted to do was to start with the framework of developing them-- the understanding of the difference between a professional and non-professional. Just generic information. And there was some suspicion on the part of the director as to whether I should do it that way. So I had to revise it into the way that he suggested but never lose sight of the goal that I had to go back and try to develop that philosophy so that we could all have a great [INAUDIBLE] about what we were doing. So I got some ideas from Opal, but I had also worked out these particular ideas by finding that I'm going to have to move very slowly [INAUDIBLE] until I can eliminate that element of suspicion on the part of the director. Yes. And also, to deal with the suspicion [INAUDIBLE] which the director causes you to have of him. I began to feel that I was one of the-- and now I'm wondering if there is really this true interest on behalf of the clients that they are serving, on behalf of the staff who worked there, and then my behalf. You know, I'm a very insignificant person. And I'm wondering if this suspicion is not demonstrated in terms of sabotage and some other ways when you try to do something to [INAUDIBLE] Well, we see the setting for this thing. And Joyce. Do you want to take a break, Howard, it's a quarter to 5:00. No. Yes. Quarter to 5:00? The time you pass says, oh, you've used this [INAUDIBLE] 4 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Quarter to 5:00? We've been [INAUDIBLE] for 45 minutes. All right. Let's stop, then. Or I can [INAUDIBLE] and you all listen to him. No, no, no. We don't want to have divided minds. So let's just break. And then-- Pitts Theology Library Emory University [INTERPOSING VOICES] This was a key a method that enabled them to escape destruction. But the method doesn't know anything about that. The method only knows how to method. You mean external destruction, not really the-- [INAUDIBLE] but it's kind of like selfdestruction, too. But you see, it's hard to dry the line, you know. Somewhere in the category of your experience, you've got to have something somewhere that affirms you. You've got to have-Otherwise you're going to self-destruct. That's right. You've got to have it. And you see, the tragedy for so much in our lives is the fact that we have-- [INAUDIBLE] wonderful. Like a sticky little thing. Wonderful. [INAUDIBLE] You were anticipating [INAUDIBLE] wonderful [INAUDIBLE] The tragedy that we have grown up over a 100 years or more in a social climate in which there was no immediate protection against the profoundest kind of humiliation so that whether it was your father [INAUDIBLE] or your mother, so that the only-- oh, thank you, Virginia. I wondered what all the [INAUDIBLE] they were. Good, thank you. Do you want anything to drink? No, I have some. [INAUDIBLE] brought me some coffee. Thank you. So that it is really rebuilding the whole ego's structure. And one of the reasons why in my own youth [INAUDIBLE] one of the things that sent me for instance to the exploration of the whole excavation and all that of Negro spirituals was right there. Because I had to find something that gave a certain kind of [? iron ?] that then survived a culture under circumstances in which survival was most [? impossibly ?] a rational thing in the [? world. ?] 5 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu And I think-- I don't know how to do this, of course-- but we've got to find the problem of the poor in a society in which wealth, or what I'm calling wealth, the absence of poverty, is an expression of the bias of the universe. It just isn't bad management. So there's a fundamental difference between being poor and being poverty stricken. Pitts Theology Library Emory University That's very true. You see. And the technique-- the resurrection, or whatever it is, rehabilitation, or redefinition-this need for it is very different in dealing with these two-Cultures. --two separate entities. And one is a quality of being. And the other is a status or a condition. And you can deal with one by giving jobs and so on, and so on, so. But yes, please. See, but the eligibility worker does it a little bit different. That's right. She doesn't know one from the other. And she doesn't know the difference between the poor in heart and poor in spirit, and the just poor without money. And this has really been very hard for us to really talk about. And you see, then we have people-- what we've done is we've created a pecking order in the communities, where they don't even want to say they are poor. They don't want to be identified with poor people. That's the proud people. That's the people who are with low income, but feel very good about themselves. This whole business feeling good about yourself has really come in there, and it's cut down the strengths of the neighborhoods. That cut the hopefulness. It has been cut out. And so now they are fighting each other. What I'm really trying to say is that our social welfare system has really helped to really create a divisiveness among its clients. I think also the schools, too. Often because here, you know, we're giving a pass where the kids are abusing the so-called free lunch program. This is what some people say [INAUDIBLE]. Parents should get up and make their lunches and so forth. So consequently, some of the teachers police the children and look in their [? cum ?] file. They have a car, and they have their child down there getting free lunch. So this divides a school, too-- the high school students. Those are free lunch kids over there. You see, so I see this whole thing, what you said, too. Exactly. So that's just compounding. Yeah. You were going to say something to Jane? Everybody should get a free lunch. It gives back to your concept of brotherhood. Just because you're there, you're a brother. You might be hungry. 6 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Are you going to deal with pacing yourself? Well, you know, we have more than [INAUDIBLE] [LAUGHTER] Pitts Theology Library Emory University I don't know. Pacing yourself. It may be that that will come in the tape that you wanted to do tomorrow. [INAUDIBLE] we're going to try to put it all together if you want to-- is everybody here? Where is Melissa? Jean. What? Jean. She went back to [INAUDIBLE] That is a professional. You know, Dr. Thurman, you said something this morning before we took the break on, what kind of self concept, what kind of armor do you have that kind of helps you when your back is against the wall? What have we got? I've been thinking about that. And that's what I was thinking about the other day when I was trying to find out what leadership is, if I knew where that definition is. I was trying to struggle through it. And I thought about it. Because you've been really reinforcing this each day that we've been here, talking about your parents, and talking about your heritage, and talking about the kind of relationship that you had with your mother, with your grandmother, and the whole family, the whole sense of identity and oneness with the family. And I think if you asked me that question, I guess that would be what I would tie into that kind of equipment, having somebody who many, many years ago really told me I was somebody and had a potential of being somebody, even though the forces outside my house-- in Tyler, Texas, incidentally. Yeah, I know that place. Tyler, Texas. Everybody in Tyler, Texas that I knew did not say the same thing. And every force in Tyler, Texas really was a struggle. And when I think about the fact that-- I used to live in front of a cemetery, I never told you this. And when I was a young child, the Ku Klux Klan used to have a [INAUDIBLE] [? Ford. ?] And they used to, right in front of the tombstones over there across the street from my house, that's where they would line up to go on their whatever they were doing at night. And I was afraid, deathly, of the Ku Klux Klan, because what I knew they had done. And I'll never forget the kind of way that I was taught to cope with racial prejudice and bigotry and discrimination in Tyler, Texas, was to have a sense of humor. And I used to play a game. 7 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu And I find myself now coping that very same way. I play a game. And I know it's a game. And I used to outdo white people. And when they'd do something to me, I would figure out a way that I could outdo them in the way in which I related to them-- with humor. I'm very skilled. Pitts Theology Library Emory University Right. Now, you know on that-- On that point, I think we are ready to go to-- you opened it up, [? something. ?] Let's go to deception. We go to deception now. [LAUGHTER] But it did work in Pasadena. [LAUGHTER] It did work in Pasadena. [INAUDIBLE] Tyler. [LAUGHTER] Can you find it? It remains me. When I was a little girl, I saw my mother pick up the shovel and threaten the chairman of the board [INTERPOSING VOICES] And she taught me an approach, that frequently you'd like to shovel a person. Oh, I don't know. [LAUGHTER] She did it. Come one step closer to me and I'll break your-- You want to stay with [INAUDIBLE] are you reading, or you want to write on [INAUDIBLE] I think you've got to go straight. All right. Down on the corner to the left. Wherever we sit we'll get together. Take it just a minute. All right. Do it. Can I kind of-- 8 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Yes, you can. --do a few things? When [? Opal ?] was describing, [INAUDIBLE] talking about putting that pencil down, I'm seeing it in maybe a complicated way. I see my role in helping get the pencil down. But I see having to work through a lot of misconceptions, a lot of dependency. That ain't easy. Because a lot of folks don't want to look at it. Pitts Theology Library Emory University Some of it is superimposed on the [INAUDIBLE], even at far above poverty level-- an interpretation of who we are and how you identify a more violent form of racism than having to go to the toilet assigned, "colored." No. And you see, and not only do we become like the thing we love, we become like the thing we fear. Like the thing we what? We fear. Oh, fear. And I think-- are you ready, [INAUDIBLE] Ready in a [? second. ?] Well, I'll stop talking. That's a heavy, though, you left us in. Yes, you see, it is psychologically understandable that towards the thing we love, all the doors open. I mean, everything is open. So that we assume-- and this is right-- we assume that we become influenced, become like the thing we love. But the other side of it is also true. The thing that threatens us, that holds us at bay, over a time interval of sufficient duration, a very interesting thing happens to the person. That is heavy. Can't [INAUDIBLE] Your nervous system commits the thing that threatens. Your nervous system commits the anatomy of that thing to memory. So when you get in the position-- for instance, let's do it graphically. If for a x number of years, I'm down here and the heel is right here, so that a heel blocks our my whole horizon, my nervous system commits the heel to memory. So when I get up from there and I'm standing up, then the behavior panel I must unlearn is not to take that heel and do it to the other person-- exactly what over this long time interval was done to me. 9 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Now, so in that sense, we become like the thing that threatens, if it threatens us over a long time interval as to dominate our focus and our attention. Good case in point would be some emerging African nation. Pitts Theology Library Emory University Yes. Yes. Yes. We've seen this phenomenon of some of the minorities who get [INAUDIBLE] and they became the tyrants [INAUDIBLE] Where in the totality of the experience have the synapses that control everything to learn anything differently? So that somebody has to stand to be there at the moment of moral crisis to define what it is they're doing now. This is precisely a duplication of what was happening to you when you were down there. [INTERPOSING VOICES] Whole lot of things. Of course. That's what we want to do. That's the whole point. Every Friday, I like to tell-- look, you know what? You know, call people to the phone, they make people wait. They did the very same things to their neighbors that the caseworkers did to them. But every Friday I was reminding them about that. Yeah, but can we expect anything differently? Yeah. I hope so. I hope so. I think the first thing we've got to understand is the anatomy of the behavior. So that you don't react too emotionally and say it's wrong or-- I mean, that's stupid. But if we understand, then we are in a position to set up another kind of behavior. And you can't do it overnight. And the man knew all that. The Negroes just wait. We just wait. I'll wait. I got [INAUDIBLE] Right down under that old tree at the crossing. And while he's waiting, he's saying, y'all unify. [LAUGHTER] Who speaks for you all? All you need to do is look at your urban centers. Go unify. The black [INAUDIBLE] urban centers. The white folks just waiting for them to collapse. Then they'll move right back again. 10 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu You know, there's a legend that all of my friends in Nigeria are telling me at the [INAUDIBLE]. I think something is going to be written one of the novelists' books. Pitts Theology Library Emory University The legend is that there was a time of famine among all the birds, [INAUDIBLE] and they starved to death. It happened to turtles and everything else. They just couldn't get anything to eat. But the word came on day that the king of the birds up there had prepared a tremendous banquet. And at last all the birds could get together and get on up there and eat and live. But turtle couldn't fly. And he went around and said, you know I can't fly. But if you just help me-- a feather from you, a feather from you. And one of the birds said, you know, you are a crook. You can't be depended upon. He said, oh, I'm a changed man. I'm hungry. So they put together all these feathers and gave him wings. And he went on up there. Now, then they were waiting for the great doors to swing wide so they come in. The turtle said, oh, I've been around. You people have-- you haven't been exposed to [INAUDIBLE]. Let me talk for you. And he said, one of the first things you have to do is everybody has to have a name. You just can't be an eagle. You've got to be John Eagle or somebody. Everybody has to name [INAUDIBLE]. And my name is All Of You. So when the king of the feasts came out. And the turtle moves to speak and said, now, for whom did you prepare all of this? He said, for all of you. And he turned to the birds saying, I'm very sorry, but that's my name. [LAUGHTER] And he went on in there and he ate. And so the problem was, how in the world is he going to get back? So they took their feathers back. And he just begged. They said no. Like they should have done. So he said to the owl now, you've always been kind of friendly. Now, when you get back down there, tell my wife-[LAUGHTER] Tell my wife to take all the blankets, all the pillows, mattresses, everything soft, and put it in the yard. So-[LAUGHTER] --when I fall, I land on something soft. So the owl said, yes, I'll do that. So he told his wife, your husband will be coming-He ain't coming home. 11 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu [LAUGHTER] And he wants the loudest possible welcome. So he wants you to have every kind of metal-- That's right. Convince owl. [LAUGHTER] Did you hear the title of this next part is "deception"? [LAUGHTER] Pitts Theology Library Emory University [LAUGHTER] And so every can, everything. And when he came down, he hit it. And that's why the turtle's shell has all these little pieces in it. That's the legend [INAUDIBLE]. That's nice. That's very nice. Now, Joyce. Now we're ready. That was good. Lord, look at the time. It sure did go fast. It's too fast. Slow up. [SIDE CONVERSATIONS] [AUDIO PLAYBACK] - I am continuing our thinking together on Jesus and the disinherited, not only because of some [? eminent ?] necessity, but because it is very important that we surround our own minds and spirits with as much insight and understanding [? with ?] reference to the life of Jesus as we possibly can, while we are being stampeded during this period by so much that detracts from the heart and pulse beat of his religion and his concerns. We begin dealing this morning with the question of hypocrisy, of deception. As one of the hounds of hell dogging the footsteps of the disinherited, of the weak, of the disadvantaged, of the poor, deception is often a technique of survival for the weak, for the poor. It is a method, a device, a process, even an experience, by which the individual who is unable to measure arms with the adversary can lengthen the brittle thread of his life, even when to do so seems to be a great irrationality. 12 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Pitts Theology Library Emory University Now, the fundamental proposition to which I will invite your attention is this-- when deception serves as a device for-- 13 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Jesus and the Disinherited (1976) AudioWithTranscription Audio that is shown through the 3Play Media embedded interactive transcript Audio with Transcription <iframe width="100%" height="820" frameborder="0" src="/files/players/394-306_B.html" ></iframe> Internal Notes Notes for project team Edited transcript - GL 5/23/19 Cross-reference with BU finding aid indicates this series may have been at Morehouse - SR 2021/03/04 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 394-306_B Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Thurman, Howard Title A name given to the resource Afternoon Seminar, Concludes Morning, Jesus and the Disinherited VII, VIII (Jesus and the Disinherited) [Side B], 1976 Feb 28 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2/28/76 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="http://pid.emory.edu/ark:/25593/rp8k9">MSS 394</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available <a href="http://pitts.emory.edu/">Pitts Theology Library, Emory University</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/"><img style="border-width:0;" src="https://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc/4.0/80x15.png" alt="80x15.png" /></a><br />This work is licensed under a <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/">Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International License</a>. 2019. Description An account of the resource Thurman starts this recording by telling multiple anecdotes that focus on the idea of sense of self, and the idea that people are victims to low expectations. He then proceeds to talk about how he wants to question how people in power got there, and the idea of mutual communication between people. He not only talks about relationships between people, but also how to escape one's own self destruction. Thurman also gives his opinions on the world that humans have created and how society is set up. There’s no protection from humiliation, and the world is divided. There is also divisiveness in the social welfare system with abuse of free lunch policies at schools. Thurman then relates that to brotherhood in the sense that if one is a part of the school, one should get a free lunch. He also gives advice on how to protect oneself when your back is against the wall, and the ways that he coped with bigotry and racism growing up. He also talks about the fact that a lot of people don’t want to look at more violent racism, and that society not only becomes like the things people like, but also the things they fear. Finally, he finishes by talking about deception, and the fact that it is a tool of the weak. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Mary Sellers Conley deception division welfare https://thurman.pitts.emory.edu/files/original/37272de1bf13f4b7af0c7c5342ebfd7c.pdf 3ca2bbe294cc9a99eaf4e9859500bdca PDF Text Text Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu 394-307_A.mp3 [AUDIO PLAYBACK] Pitts Theology Library Emory University - For one more leg on our journey, and to see if I cannot make a plateau out of this for you to hold until we start again. It is rather difficult to get at what has been gnawing in me. But I want to try, if I may, to summarize what is my concern in two or three comprehensive sentences, and then work back to see if we can't get at it. The basic proposition is that the contribution-- let's see-- the contribution which Jesus made to the working concept of brotherhood, which was His inheritance, was this. He substituted the-[END PLAYBACK] Watch it. Go on. [INAUDIBLE] though. [AUDIO PLAYBACK] - --exclusiveness which is inherent in any definition of brotherhood, you see. Inclusiveness-[END PLAYBACK] Substituted inclusiveness for exclusiveness. [AUDIO PLAYBACK] - By definition, you see, brotherhood is exclusive. What He did was to substitute the exclusive character and redefine it in terms of inclusiveness. And this He could do in the light of the meaning of His religion. I shall come back to this as we begin to work it out. Now, Paul, in his treatment of this experience, did the same thing on a more limited scale. He included in his definition the Gentile world. So there again, he pulled out exclusiveness and used inclusiveness. The difference, however-- he made his inclusiveness contingent upon the relationship of the individual to Christ. So whereas in the thought of Jesus, the inclusiveness was due to the way the individual is related to God, in Paul-[END PLAYBACK] Stop. Stop. Stop. Hold everything. The definition of brotherhood, which-- the contribution that the thought, experience, life-- whatever we say-- of Jesus made to the experience of brotherhood is the way in which He redefined it. Who? Jesus. I'll get to Paul. Oh, OK. OK, I understand. 1 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu They couldn't stand it. All right. There's enough said. All right. They couldn't stand it. Pitts Theology Library Emory University Because ordinarily, the generic definition of brotherhood is an exclusive thing. It excludes everybody but the unit that conforms by whatever the definition is-- say, appearance or whatever that is. So that one of its dominant characteristics, that separates the brother from the rest of the people, is this exclusiveness. Now Jesus takes that thing, that word, the whole concept, and says that the thing that is characteristic of brotherhood is that it's inclusive. No. Right. They couldn't stand it. Now Paul says that this narrow thing of brotherhood is no good. He cuts out the very restrictive, restrictive inclusiveness and gets a-- and widens the boundary, so that all people qualify for brothers if they believe in Christ, you see. Now one, if you're the same blood, that's the narrowest it could get. Now out here, the circle is wider, but it's still narrow, because if you believe in Jesus Christ, you are a brother. Now Jesus says, all you have to do is to be born in the world, and you're a brother. Now this-- so these contributions to make brotherhood inclusive of the whole-- excuse me-- of the whole business-now this is the setting. This is the context. All right, now. Now go ahead and push. Uh-Yeah, wait a minute. Paul look upon Jesus as the revelation of God to man? Did he? Yes. Hold that question. If it isn't answered in what I'm about to say, I'll come back. Oh, OK. All right. OK. All right. Go on, Joyce. [AUDIO PLAYBACK] - Inclusiveness was due to the way the individual must be related to Christ. Now, the Church picks up this and makes its definition of brother in Christ, mark you now, inclusive immediately of all the believers, potentially inclusive of all who will believe. And out of this concern, there is the necessity to go out to ready people for their acceptance of Him, in order that they may be included. [END PLAYBACK] 2 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu That's evangelism. [AUDIO PLAYBACK] Pitts Theology Library Emory University - So the Church finds itself ambivalent, then, confirming in its commitment this inclusiveness, defining the nature of the believer in terms that are exclusive, putting the burden for inclusiveness ultimately upon the shoulders of the person who must do something in order to be included. And it is for this reason that within the Church itself, individuals, groups are permitted to be regarded as included but not quite. And this is the basis of all the segregations of the Christian church. Now, let's go back and work, so that if you don't get anything else, I've said what's the heart of what's in my mind. Now let's see if we can't work at it. God-- in the thought of Jesus, God is the creator of life and human life. We began with that point. And that all men are brothers by virtue of the fact of their creation. And the derivative from the fact of their creation is that there is, in all them, a part of the living God, who is their creator. This is the basis of the Jesus doctrine of brotherhood. It is not contingent upon any kind of classification, any kind of belonging, any kind of status, and any kind of construct of relatedness. It is inherent in the nature of the existence of the individual. He is created by God. And in him there is that which is of God the Creator. And therefore, I get to you through God the Creator, who causes His sun to shine on the good man and the bad man, the wicked and the unwicked, the believer and the unbeliever. Have I a right to exercise a principle of discrimination in my dealings with human beings-- a principle that God Himself does not exercise in the way in which He shares His light? Now this is a radical thing in the definition-- in the redefining of brother-- and it really started with Jesus. So you see, the word "brother" means, by inference, something that is unique, particular, exclusive, because it stands over against those who are not brothers. Now if it is true that God is the creator of all, and there is therefore, in each one of us, His spirit, and this we are under some inner necessity to relate to in order that we may be aware of the dimensions of our own brotherhood-- if this is true, then no category has any standing that separates. Now this is radical. It was radical for Jesus. Think of what it meant-- what it meant for Him to take a position like this. What about the Samaritan? What about the Gentile? What about the Roman? What about the uncircumcised? What about those who were never part of the covenant? Now this means, you see, that in Him, there is a redefinition of the significance of the individual, that God relates not merely to the group, not merely to the family, not merely to the nation, but God relates to the individual, because the groups will change, will shift. Kingdoms will wax and wane. Civilizations will rise and fall. States will be active today and inactive tomorrow. But always, there is the individual who relates to life out of the depths of his intimacy and his privacy. And it is for this individual the constant equation in all of the social forms and patterns and constructs. The individual, therefore, is the one for whom God cares. 3 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Now Paul had essentially the same psychological problem that Jesus had, only more crucially difficult-- if I may tie up two words like that-- for Paul was a Jew, as Jesus was. But Paul was free. And this is of such overwhelming importance to understand the nature of his victory over himself and his heritage. He was a free Jew. Pitts Theology Library Emory University He boasts of the fact at his trial, that he was the Hebrew son of a Hebrew father, as touching the law, a Pharisee. He was of the core of-- he found his emotional security and stability in the very core of his belonging in the context of this reality. And in addition to this, you see, feeling as he did about being a Jew, at the same time he was privileged to experience in the way he was treated by the Romans as if he were not a Jew. Cut it, Joyce. - Think of what this did to him. [END PLAYBACK] You see, now this is very, very critical here. You see, as Rome conquered all these people, they were not-- it was imperialism. They were not Roman citizens. Now in contemporary-- in modern times, the unique thing about French imperialism as over against British imperialism or Portuguese imperialism or American imperialism, when you-- an African or what have you from French Guinea could become a citizen of France. Now this is a part of their technique. Now every person in Guinea, let us say, as a Guinea-- I mean, as an illustration, did not automatically become a Roman-- a Frenchman. But the point is there was a procedure by which he could become a French citizen and become a member of the French parliament. No such possibility was available to an Indian under Britain or someone from one of the-- down south here-- the islands. Now this was a system-- the imperialistic system-- that modern imperialism in a sense picked up from the Roman Empire. All governments that were under, that they had taken, became parts of the colonies. Now, one of the characteristics of being a colony is that you are not permitted-aside from the political things, having political status as such, the vote and citizenship-- you are not permitted to finish, to produce, create raw material-- finished products out of raw materials. You-- this-- a colony was permitted to raise the stuff, but it could not be processed and finished except at headquarters. So that when the Civil War was fought, and for a long time, the South was a colony. It is only within my own immediate memory that the cotton that was raised in the South for decades was finally processed in the South. And all of the mills in New England moved down into the South. And this shifted the status-- the economic status and the political status. So the South more and more became a part of the United States and not a colony. Now with Rome and during the period of Jesus, Jesus was just a Jew, with no political rights other than the rights that were passed on to him as a part of the grace of the Roman Empire. Now there's several ways by which a subject in one of the countries under Rome could become a Roman citizen. 4 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Now we don't know them all. They're obscure. But if my father, for instance, had done a great favor to the state-- let us say, if the Roman representative in California was being attacked late one night by some people, and I came to rescue, saved his life, and lost my own, out of gratitude, the Roman government might confer upon my children citizenship, you see. Yes. Pitts Theology Library Emory University Yeah, it hurts. You had mentioned the Zealots in Jesus' time and what they had been doing. And I can't help but wonder, if they were active at the time of Jesus' birth, why would Herod, who represented the Roman interest, be concerned to the point of attempting to rid any potential threat? Well, because, you see, remember that the empire is spread everywhere. And you had the representatives of Rome and the legion and who-- and the magistrate, as Pilate was, for instance. And it was-- excuse me. It'd be very simple for a movement to start by Zealots, by reign of terror, which in turn would reduce the tributes. You see, it's economic. Anything that interferes with the flow of cash to the treasury that kept the whole thing going-- this was the great sin. So that-- and if you put up the mula, then you could-- a lot of things would be overlooked. And it's characteristic. Money buys. Yes, it hasn't changed too much-[LAUGHTER] --even now. So that we don't know how Paul got his Roman citizenship. There is nothing historical. But we only know that he had it. And how do we know that he had it? He said he had it. And what is more important, as I point out later, I think-- maybe not there. But it's in my head, anyway-- that at one time, he was being whipped in a jail somewhere in Asia Minor. And he said to this jailer-- he was being punished as a Christian or something-- and he said to this jailer, now take your hands off me. I am a Roman citizen. And I appeal to Caesar, which is the right of any Roman citizen anywhere in the empire. He could take his case directly to Rome. But you see, think of what that meant. I mean, it's-- suppose as I grew up in Daytona, and because of some great tribute or some sacrifice that Saul Solomon Thurman, my father, had done for the president or the governor of-- and this is not too far fetched, either-- the governor of Florida, so that the governor of Florida passed the word on to the state troopers and everybody, now, now, leave him alone. [INAUDIBLE] [INAUDIBLE]. And I could do a lot of things that other fellows in my town couldn't do. And to push it, to make it impossible, that even though they were bound by segregation, I wasn't. Now, I could say, you know what, to my buddies-- [INAUDIBLE]. I say, you really don't understand these people. You see, I know you, and I know them. So that now don't-- you don't have to go at it this way. And I could do that. 5 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Now, this is the psychology that Paul dealt with. And Jesus didn't have it, you see? So that if a Roman soldier kicked Jesus in the ditch, he's just another Jew trying to get up out the mud. He couldn't appeal to Caesar. He had no rights that the Roman legion had to respect. Now, against that background-- Pitts Theology Library Emory University Let's come back. He talks about love. I can hear somebody who talks about love from out of that kind of squeeze play. And I can hear him in a way that I can't quite hear Paul, you see? Because there's certain things about the anatomy of being under the hammer that Paul only knew by imagination. You see? All right. All right. All right. [INAUDIBLE] a break. Oh. Want to take a break? It's 10 min-- yeah, we better take a break right here. Get some coffee and stretch. And Josephine and John are right around-OK. The john is right around there. [SIDE CONVERSATION] Do you consider the tape on the search for God-The school's librarian should have [INAUDIBLE]. And at some point, I don't know. We don't have any points to go, but-All right. Good, very good. Will you say that to Joyce? Yeah. [INAUDIBLE]. She's on the faculty. He wants to try those tapes. It's kind of also an invitation. Oh, yeah? [INAUDIBLE]. 6 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Let's close with that tomorrow. OK. All right? Pitts Theology Library Emory University Yeah. Everybody-That's the alternate. I hear you. All right. [AUDIO PLAYBACK] - By blood, training, background, he belonged to this group in the Roman Empire that was under the hammer. [END PLAYBACK] That's Jesus. [AUDIO PLAYBACK] - With no political freedom, with a sense of having your lives pinched in by the pressure of the pagan world, at the top of which sat the Roman Empire's marching legion. All right. But Paul was not affected by this, because for some reason we do not quite know, by some historical incident-- or maybe his father did something to save a Roman general. Or maybe he did something else. I don't know just what happened. But he was given protection of citizenship. Now think of what that means. Living in the midst of the Jewish community, a part and parcel of all of their life and hopes and dreams. But when it came to any kind of discrimination, he was an exception. Think about what would this do to him? Suppose I went down to Mississippi just as I am-[END PLAYBACK] Memphis? Because I'm one to leave. [LAUGHTER] [INAUDIBLE] [AUDIO PLAYBACK] 7 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu - And all the laws of Mississippi that have to do with segregation would not apply to me. I would have open sesame to the city of Vicksburg. [END PLAYBACK] Pitts Theology Library Emory University [LAUGHTER] They reacted, too. [AUDIO PLAYBACK] - Do you see what it would mean? Yeah. - Now, this would tempt me to do what? It would tempt me to say to my friends in Vicksburg, who are having a lot of trouble-- they're under great pressure-- now, really, they really aren't so bad. If you could see the other side of the street the way I do, they-- now just [INAUDIBLE]. [END PLAYBACK] Romanticize poverty. [AUDIO PLAYBACK] - If a Roman soldier were whipping Paul, he could say to that soldier, take your hands off me. I am a Roman citizen. I appeal to Caesar. But if a Roman soldier kicked Jesus into a Palestinian ditch, he could not appeal to Caesar. He was just a Jew in the ditch. So this subtle thing in the psychology of Paul-[END PLAYBACK] Watch it, now. [AUDIO PLAYBACK] - --has had a profound influence in the development of the notion of brotherhood which you see in the Church. Now please do not misunderstand me that this, that I am about to say now, is not all that there is in Paul. But what I'm trying to have you understand is what happened, and the kind of definition that he gave to brotherhood, growing out of his experience. This was all brought home to me in a very striking way. I've written this account, so some of you perhaps have read it. But when I was a boy, one of the chores with which I started out in life, after I became literate, was to write the letters for my grandmother. My grandmother was the anchor person in our family. And everybody wrote to her, knowing that in due time, all the members of the family would hear. 8 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu And various members of the family began complaining because they couldn't read my writing. And my grandmother then shifted my chore. I became the reader. And my sister became the writer, because she wrote the nice girl's hand. Pitts Theology Library Emory University One of my chores was to read the Bible to my grandmother. But she would not ever let me read any of the letters of the apostle Paul. And I was concerned about this. But my grandmother was so frightening, you didn't raise any questions about anything. You just abided. But when I went to college, at the end of my junior year, I came home and was a little bit more-well, you know. So I was reading the Bible to her one afternoon on the front porch. And I said, why, grandma, why is it, as we grew up, you would not ever let me read any of the letters of Paul to you? And she said, oh, that's very simple. When I was a girl and a young woman on the plantation in North Florida, where I was owned and lived until the Civil War was fought, twice a year, the minister of the master had special services for the slaves. And he always preached from the same text-- words of the apostle Paul. "Slaves, be obedient to your masters, for this is right in the Lord." And I promised myself that if I ever learned to read or if I ever became a free person, I would never read that part of the Bible. Now this is present in the thought of Paul, logically and consistently present, growing out of the psychology of his experience. But there's something else there. He found that through Christ, he could redefine the meaning of brotherhood in the same way that Jesus found, through God, He could redefine the meaning of brotherhood. So that Paul says, in Christ, then, there is neither bond nor free, east or west, Greek or barbarian. Now, the Church, then, following in the wake of this historic religious experience, defines brotherhood in terms of those who are brothers in Christ-- in Christ-- using as the key the same basic insight that Paul used, just a bit different. Through him, there are certain formalities that are necessary in order for you to qualify to be a brother in Christ, you see? So that if you define the meaning of Christ in one way, then this alters the conditions that must be met by those who are excluded before they can be included as brothers. You remember, when we began the series, I told you about the experience of my father. Now the minister of that church defined the meaning of Christ in a way that excluded my father from being a brother. [END PLAYBACK] That's [INAUDIBLE]. You don't remember that? I don't think you do that. Your father's funeral. Oh, I didn't-No. 9 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu You haven't heard that story. We didn't play that. Yeah, what do I do? Do I-- I've not-- shall I tell them about it now? No, you were reminding them that you had-No, but I mean-Would you like to tell them now? Or would you rather wait until after you hear it? I'd better do it now, because-That sounds good. --because it's right-You speak to the point. Pitts Theology Library Emory University I don't think so. That's what you're talking about. Yeah. My father was not a member of any-- of the Church. I was seven years old when he died. And he was sick about five or six days with double pneumonia. He was a great, big, robust man. And my oldest memory of him was as a man who worked on the gang that laid the tracks of the Florida East Coast railroad, from Jacksonville to Miami. So that he would come home about, oh, every two weeks. He was very fastidious, because sometimes I would go down to the barber shop to pick up some shoes, because the shoemaker was in the back of the barber shop-- shoe repair man. And I would see my father sitting in the barber's chair on a Saturday afternoon, getting a haircut and a shave. He did not want his family to see him until he was presentable. So he would come from the railway station to the barber shop to get his haircut and a shave. Then he would come home. So that-- and this-- my mother I were with him when he was dying. And he had this-- what we called in Florida at that time the death rattle. You could hear it. And I was on one side of the bed. My mother was on the other side. I was seven. And my mother was very pious and very devout and very wonderful. She said, Saul-- his name, as you may recall, I said was Saul Solomon Thurman. She said, Saul, are you ready to die? And then, between these gasps of air, he said, Alice-- that was my mother's name-- all my life I've been a man. I'm not afraid to die. And with that, his body gave a great spasm, trying to get that last bit of air. And we had to hold him down on the bed. And he died. [SNAPS] My grandmother and I bathed him, and as we said back in those days, we laid him out. And you- a couple of problems. He had to be buried the next day, because you could not be embalmed if 10 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu you were a Negro. The man who ran the furniture place and was the undertaker could come out to your place if you were a Negro and embalm you. But you couldn't be embalmed downtown. Pitts Theology Library Emory University And the coffin was something like $28. We didn't have any money. And my mother sent me to all the neighbors. And then everybody chipped in. And there was no shame, no embarrassment, or anything of that sort, because maybe next week or next month, one of my other buddies would be coming around. It was that sort of neighborhood. Well, it meant, then, that my father must be buried the next day. The minister of our church refused first-- not only to take the service, but to let my father be buried from the church, because he died out of Christ. I see. So my grandmother went to see the minister. And she said, ministers come-- went to see the deacon. I'm sorry-- ministers come and go. But deacons live here. And I want Saul buried from this church. And of course, he was. But the minister said, but I don't have to preach his funeral. But there was a traveling evangelist in town, Sam [INAUDIBLE]. And this was made to order. He was a man-- he was born out of Christ. And this is what happens to sinners. So he preached my father into Hell. And I was sitting as a little boy on a walnut bench. And I kept saying to Mama, Mama, he didn't know Papa, did he? He didn't know Papa. And she would take her hand and put it on my bare knee. And the most intimate kind of thing to do, aside from taking your handkerchief or something and wiping a tear from somebody's eye, is this. Put your hand there, and squeeze. Something flows. And so that was for me to be quiet. So coming back in the buggy from the graveyard, I tried to get the question answered. Why? Why? And I couldn't get any answer that satisfied my seven-year-old mind. And then I made the grave declaration, well, if I ever grow up, one thing is true. I will never have anything to do with the Church. [LAUGHS] All right. Now, just a sequel to that is that-- remember, I was seven. When I was 21-- somewhere in there, 20 or 21-- in college, I came home to visit for a week before going to work. And one of my buddies who was in school with me, but had elected not to go on with his education, but to-got a shoe shine stand, had money and a car. So he took me around, showed me all the buildings that had gone up and things that had changed in town and the gossip stuff. And we were coming through one of the Negro sections called Midway. And we're just laughing and talking. And I saw a man coming out of the barber shop. And I stopped talking. I just-- I don't know what happened to me. The curtain came down. And Pearce thought that he'd said something to offend me. I'd been away to college. He hadn't been. You know, we were still trying to edge our way back to the original continuum. 11 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu And I said, oh, no. It's nothing. But just take me home, please. And we'll get together later on. And he took me home in the car. And I was sitting on the front porch with my grandmother. And I felt that she could explain anything. And I was telling her about this. Pitts Theology Library Emory University And she said, what did the man look like? And then, when I described it, she said, oh, lord have mercy-- which was one of her phrases. Don't you know who that was? That was Sam [INAUDIBLE], who preached Saul's funeral. I hadn't seen him since I was seven years old. Oh, heavens. And then I was now 20-something. And when I saw him, it triggered this whole thing in me. Yes. Well, now that's the story. Now you can roll. Oh, well, I like the story. [AUDIO PLAYBACK] - So the burden of proof, there, for becoming a brother rests on the individual and how he relates to a doctrine and a dogma and a creed, again and again. So we find this denial today, that we define brotherhood in times of Christ. The Church does. And this is, in the nature of the case, initially exclusive. Deep within the incentive of the religious experience is an obligation to those who are excluded. So moving out of the experience of brotherhood, we go forth, then, to transform the world. 12 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Jesus and the Disinherited (1976) AudioWithTranscription Audio that is shown through the 3Play Media embedded interactive transcript Audio with Transcription <iframe width="100%" height="820" frameborder="0" src="/files/players/394-307_A.html" ></iframe> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 394-307_A Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Thurman, Howard Title A name given to the resource Morning, Jesus and the Disinherited II, IV (Jesus and the Disinherited) [Side A], 1976 Feb 28 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2/28/76 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="http://pid.emory.edu/ark:/25593/rp8k9">MSS 394</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available <a href="http://pitts.emory.edu/">Pitts Theology Library, Emory University</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a rel="license" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/"><img alt="Creative Commons License" style="border-width:0" src="https://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc/4.0/80x15.png" /></a><br />This work is licensed under a <a rel="license" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/">Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International License</a>. 2019. Description An account of the resource Thurman discusses the idea of brotherhood. He talks about the exclusiveness that is associated with brotherhood and the difference in how Jesus and Paul view it. Paul says that you have to be a follower of Christ to be part of the brotherhood, and Jesus says you just have to be born to be a brother. The basis of the Jesus doctrine of brotherhood is that God is the creator, so everyone is a part of God, and therefore all are brothers because of that virtue. God never discriminated, so neither should humans. Thurman also comments on the church's view on inclusiveness. The church puts the burden of inclusiveness on the actual person and the relationship with God, which naturally makes the church exclusive. Thurman also mentions how modern day imperialism was influenced by the Roman Empire with rights of citizenship. With this, Thurman shows how because Paul had Roman citizenship and Jesus didn’t, it impacted their respective views of brotherhood, and influenced the definition of brotherhood that we see in the church. Thurman also tells multiple anecdotes about his family and how they shaped his views on religion and relationship with the Christian church. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Mary Sellers Conley brotherhood evangelism Jesus Paul https://thurman.pitts.emory.edu/files/original/e916f8b25a7c87bad350f4e4ede7049d.pdf ab234375acb85536ff135782c3a4ce9d PDF Text Text Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu 394-307_B.mp3 [AUDIO PLAYBACK] If I can-Are you all right? Yes. Pitts Theology Library Emory University - --potentially is a brother. Only those who believe are actually brothers. So the process then is that those who believe have an obligation to bring those who are potentially brothers until they too either fall out of difficulty [INAUDIBLE]. That the definition of brotherhood spreads out so as to reflect what is the pattern by which the particular society or individuals may be [INAUDIBLE] so that when I say, if I commit any extenuating clause-- and this is the heart of my own concern and the depths of my own dilemma-- any extenuating clause like brothers' potential, opens the door for every other kind of exclusion. - You have nothing [INAUDIBLE] for the grace of God in Christ. And therefore, you are not a part of the body of Christ. And if you are not a part of the body of Christ, then you are only potentially a part of the brotherhood of man. And we don't logically put it down in such hard, cold terms, But this is the way it operates. [END PLAYBACK] Back up and hold it. Back it up and do it over again. Run it back a minute, Joyce. And then if it doesn't clear, then I'll break it up into little pieces. If I permit any extenuating clause-- and this is the heart of my own concern and-- Hold it. You see, what I'm saying is that if I permit any exception to this, namely, we say the formula is that my recognition of you as a brother is contingent upon the fact that, potentially, you will become a Christian so that that is against that possibility always that your status with me is maintained. Now that's an extenuating circumstance, you see. It's something that has to happen to you so you can qualify to be my brother. It is not something that is given. And what is that [INAUDIBLE]? Just believe in Jesus Christ. Now once you do this, then you become. Now that exception is what I'm calling an extenuating circumstance. Now what I'm saying is-and this is-- excuse me. Does missionary work then take this? 1 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Right. So that any extenuating circumstance that I permit, anything that keeps you from by place being my brother is what I'm calling extenuating circumstance. Now once I admit one kind of extenuating circumstance, I can admit a dozen. You don't cut your hair right. Your eyes are the wrong color. Your skin is the wrong color. Your feet are too big. Or you eat fish instead of-- eat cooked fish, and you should eat it raw. I mean, I can just go on and on ad on and on. Pitts Theology Library Emory University And so that we go out to save the world, and we move into a region where there's another kind of religion. And we make converts, not only to save their souls, but to put them in reach of the family. So they become. And anybody who isn't on that road is out here. And I'm under no real obligation to deal with him out there as if he were here, my brother. Hasn't met the test. Yeah. Yes, you see, so that-- yes. Let's deal with what I perceive to be something even more fundamental, deal first with myself. When I then initiate this type of recruitment and this type of constant, what about that? What about the impurities? What about whatever that is? In me? Yeah. That's the thing that I had trouble with first. Yes, yes, but you see, you have a way to-- you have a laundromat in your basement as a Christian, because you can always go down there and get yourself cleaned up. [LAUGHING] Yeah, but let's be-- how do you-- let's examine this. Let's examine this thing, this chronic condition. I'm really saying, I'm doing this because I want to bring you into the situation. If I do that over and over and over and over and over again, what happens to me? But see, you are a saved soul. Who says that? You do, and the doctors. Oh, OK. Yeah, that's your-But is it valid? Oh, well, now that's something altogether different. But that's what I don't have, the validity of it. 2 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Yes, but you see, that is a question that you don't raise as you're caught up in this process. Somebody like you might raise it. Some of you people here might raise it. But you see, when you raising that kind of question, you land where I am. Watch it. Pitts Theology Library Emory University But I'm raising it every day to myself right now. I am. Why does he have to be an NAACP member for me to love him? So I can get a raise? Well, of course, why does he? I don't know. That's the question. [CHUCKLES] Why do you want him to be an NAACP member in the first-It legitimizes him. It legitimizes him in-That's the brotherhood. Yeah, that's the brotherhood. That's what he needs to do. And if he doesn't do that, then he's an outsider? That's right. So? So I have to go out there and look good. And make him jam. I say, come on in here. To save him? Yeah, that's right. And your job? Well-[BOISTEROUS LAUGHTER] That's true. There's not enough-[LAUGHTER] 3 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu You see, what-- all of this points at the fact that whatever you're dealing with, there's something universal. It just happens that in this close thing, we're analyzing it as it applies in an area that is a familiar part of our experience. But those [INAUDIBLE], we don't raise that kind of question. That's right. Because I was using, of course, NAACP's example. Yes, I understand. Pitts Theology Library Emory University You see, the kind of question you're raising now [INAUDIBLE] so-and-so-- now as a church, the Church does raise that kind of question. You are under a mandate to salvage him for God's sake, for Christ's sake, and for your own sake. Now whether you get a dime out of it or $100,000, this is the theory. But when you take the same principle and apply it to what you're doing, then it takes on a kind of materialism that is present in the other but not recognized as such. But I really do struggle with that. I really struggle with that and the whole broader concept in terms of raising the question. I think raising the question is a process by which you learn some sort of purification for your own soul. I think that's right. And then you raise the question, you see, you have to be very careful as you raise it, as you know, because if you aren't careful, you will undermine your own personal morale. And what is morale? Morale is a belief in your own cause. That's what morale is. Leave it on. [BOISTEROUS LAUGHTER] Leave it on. All right, we'll go on. [BOISTEROUS LAUGHTER] We had it two days ago. [LAUGHTER] [AUDIO PLAYBACK] - Any extenuating clause, like brothers' potential, opens the door for every other kind of exclusion. If I tell-- if I look at you, and I say, you have not been visited by the grace of God in Christ. And therefore, you are not a part of the body of Christ. And if you're not a part of the body of Christ, then you're only potentially a part of the brotherhood of man. And we don't logically put it down in such hard, cold terms. But this is the way it operates. 4 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Then I say, let's see, as long as I can say this-- then the door is opened for me to put in my little exceptional clause. You don't cut your hair properly. Or your hair is read and it should be green. Or you have bad manners. All of these doors open up for all kinds of extenuating circumstances which place the burden of proof for becoming a brother in Christ, not in the nature of man's existence as man-- no. But in the nature of some kind of classification. Pitts Theology Library Emory University That's why the definition which Jesus Christ gives to brotherhood will destroy our culture and destroy our civilization, because our civilization within the Church and of the Church, within all the groups, is built upon another principle. Men are brothers because of something that is organic, the country they belong to, this or that or the other. They are not brothers by virtue of the fact that each one shares at the deepest levels of his being in the creation which is our God's. And this is the only basis upon which any kind of brotherhood can stand. For it is here that at last, a man begins to get an inkling into what is the nature of his infinite ways. And whether he's lame, sick, old, ugly, beautiful, wise or stupid, sane or insane, saint or sinner, American or German or Russian. Methodist or Baptist or Hindu or Presbyterian, all of these are organic classifications with no standing in the definition of brotherhood according to Him, as it is derived from how he feels that the will of God rules over the minds of men, like the spirit of the high rules over the apiary of bees. And it is to this new dimension that we are called. The [INAUDIBLE] of Abbott and a great turmoil all of which, here and there, a light may come and thy voice may be heard. We thank thee, oh, Father. We thank thee. Dismiss us now with thy spirit and forsake us not in the lonely way that we take. Oh, God, God of our spirit. [END PLAYBACK] [COUGHS] Well, that's part one of the leg. I wanted to get this established in our minds for our thinking today, because it is against that background that I want us to look for the rest of the time today at the peculiar and [INAUDIBLE] problems that are characteristic of the whole struggle in contemporary life, particularly. As people try to deal with what is inherent in the experience of recognizing yourself as a supreme work and value of-- it's a very stripping thing. If I were to ask you superficially about the meaning of this very profound thing, I'd phrase it this way, what do you do when you want to convince yourself that you are somebody? To what do you resort when you are trying to raise the water in your well? Well, well, well. What sort of things do you appeal to when you are staging a private, personal affirmation of you, when you've got to stage your own intimate comeback? Because there's something so [COUGHS] devastating about the way in which [CLEARS THROAT] our lives are always victimized I remember when I was a boy at home. And one afternoon, my mother said I could come down to Mr. Moore's, a place there, to get something to take home. It's a place where she worked and 5 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu had been working for many years and going off to family in the summer and working for them in the winter. Pitts Theology Library Emory University And he is a rich man from Hartford, Connecticut, some insurance family. And she was down in the basement where the laundry was. And I was sitting upstairs waiting for her in the kitchen, as I remember it. And Mr. Moore-- or as she called him, talking about him to us, "Old Man Moore"-- came in And so we sit him down, and he just began talking. He asked me how old I was, and I told him. And he began talking about his son. And I don't remember all the details or any details scarcely. But I know the impact of it on my mind. And that is that his son was some sort of ne'er-do-well. And he ran through everything. And he said, I just love him. And I don't know how I can find some other way to let him know that I love him. And he listed all of the things that-- as if I could understand-- of what Saratoga-never heard of Saratoga Springs in New York, where the horse races are? Somewhere up there, and everything that money could give. And always, he was outside of his son's love. And I remember riding back home on my bicycle. So It didn't occur to me why he was telling me this. But he had to tell somebody. It was obvious. And he began to cry. And I was riding home on a bicycle. And I was saying to myself, now here's a man who has all the money in the world. It seemed to me that he had-- he had everything. And a big house, 12, 15 rooms, 5 people working for him, and unhappy, because he didn't know how to love his son and have his son love him. And it had been and has had all through the years, a profound impact on my life, because it began to dawn upon my middle-adolescent mind that to have everything like that, that somehow, that this boy felt that he wasn't worth anything. And with my almost childish mind, I couldn't put it together. But the flavor of that has been in my mind and a part of my-- it influenced my thinking, my [INAUDIBLE] in so many ways, that he just had no sense of his own voice. This is what I'm getting at. [CLEARS THROAT] And this is the thing. It seems to me [COUGHS] that all that I'm working in, in whatever field you're working in, this is the thing that sticks. Not only how do I-- how can I affirm my own sense of a way that cannot be touched by the shifting seams of my circumstances, by the attitudes of other people towards me, or whether I'm having hard times or easy times. And how can I communicate this to people who are on relief, who are this and this and this and this? And I don't think it would do any wrong. How much other we can do for people. [COUGHS] The only thing that can reel in that the aroma of our sense of voice-- they can pick up their sense of voice. And if they can't do that, we aren't doing anything. That's what I'm saying. And can you professionalize that? I don't know. [INAUDIBLE] that's three things, right? I guess I can't run out of gas every once in a while. This is why I need to be recreated. And that's why something like this is most helpful to 6 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu me. You say, how do we get back with the feeling of worth ourselves? And I think there's these rare people that you come across, as I mentioned the other day, that you can communicate. And you can bounce off your own worth with each other. And it's a rare and beautiful experience I haven't experienced too many times, but thank God I have. Yeah. Nice? Yeah. That's where I get it. Yeah, because it knows where the grazing places are. [LAUGHTER] Pitts Theology Library Emory University The same thing externalized is like I said before. And these are the elements to be able to identify with the universe and feel that there is-- that you are part of. But the third thing-- and this is even more rare, but it's even more meaningful-- is what I have found is a kind of a listening of silence. And this is-- I don't know, I guess people call it by some other names-meditation, or contemplation, or whatever it is. But if you're just free or are able to remove yourself from the pressures and the present hysterics and the problems, and then just let your mind roam free. And then all of a sudden, you'll start feeling. Yeah. Well, I think we ought to quit. It's 12:05, and you've got to eat. Maybe there's some of us who can do without it. But we're not good company. But this is not it. So we have to start somewhere. I have to do the structure. And then we move in any one of several directions. Now we're going to pick up the last five minutes of the tape before we went to let our bodies know that we love them. [LAUGHTER] [AUDIO PLAYBACK] - And that's why the definition which Jesus Christ gives to brotherhood will destroy our culture and destroy our civilization, because of our civilization within the Church and out of the Church, within all the groups there's built upon another principle, made our brothers because of something that is organic, the country they belong to, this or that or the other. They are not brothers by virtue of the fact that each one shares at the deepest levels of his being in the creation which is our God. And this is the only basis upon which any kind of brotherhood can stand, for it is here that at last, a man begins to get an inkling into what is the nature of his infinite ways. And whether he's lame, sick, old, ugly, beautiful, wise or stupid, sane or insane, saint or sinner, American or German or Russian, Methodist or Baptist or Hindu or Presbyterian, all of these are 7 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu organic classifications. They have no standing in the definition of brotherhood according to Him, as it is derived from how we feel about the will of God rules over the minds of men like the spirit of the high rules over the apiary of bees. And it is to this new dimension that we are called. [END PLAYBACK] Pitts Theology Library Emory University Now you see, I want for us to have it as clearly in mind that we can make it. What we are dealing with that I thought, to capsule it very quickly, the definition that is given of brotherhood is one which locates it ordinarily in some kind of organic structure, some category that is not inherent. It is in the sense that it is something in which for various reasons is your heritage. But it does not-- it's not your heritage, because it is the common heritage of man. And this is what I mean by organic. And the classic illustration of it is in our own religion, in Christianity, rather, because the thing that the test for whether or not the brotherhood is about it, is not the fact that you are alive in the world. As far as the Church is concerned, you are a brother through Christ so that I can't stand you. But I love you for Christ's sake. Now I think that is absolutely contrary to the whole emphasis of Jesus. But it is fundamental to the theological position of the Church, for the reasons that I analyzed. Now you can see what happens then. Once you permit any special categories that will allow you to define brotherhood in a unique way that doesn't apply across the board, then the way is clear for any categories you want to set up. Now let me illustrate it. Some years ago, I did a paper on fascism in the United States, and particularly, fascism as it applies within the context of religious organizations. And of course, this involved a very critical and technical study of the Ku Klux Klan, which is a religious Protestant organization. But I want to read to you the sort of things that-- this is from their bibles. "Number one, this is, of course, a white man's organization, exalting the Caucasian race and teaching the doctrine of white supremacy. Two, this is a Gentile organization, and as such, has its mission the interpretation of the highest ideals of the white Gentile people. It is an American organization. And we do restrict membership to native-born American citizens." I know. I know. But there again, there's another kind of category, you see, within there. "Four, it is a Protestant organization." Now listen to this. "Membership is restricted to those who accept the tenets of true Christianity, which is essentially Protestant. [LAUGHTER] We maintain and contend that it is the inalienable right of Protestants to have their own distinctive organization. We can say to the world without apology and say truly that our forefathers founded this as a Protestant country. And it is our purpose to re-establish and maintain it as such. While we will energetically maintain and proclaim the principles of Protestantism. We will also maintain the principles of religious liberty-[LAUGHTER] 8 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu --as essential to the rights and progress of this nation. And we will vigorously oppose all efforts to rob the American people of this right." Now listen to this. "Now the racial ideals, we stand for white supremacy. Distinction among the races is not accidental, but designed. This is clearly brought out in the one book that tells authoritatively of the origin of the races. This distinction is not incidental but is of the vastest import, in any case, of wisdom of the divine mind. Pitts Theology Library Emory University It is not temporary, but is as abiding as the ages that have not yet ceased to rule. The supremacy of the white race will be maintained to be overwhelmed or be overwhelmed by the rising tide of color, number one. Two, we must keep this a white man's country. Only by doing this can we be faithful to the foundation laid by our forefathers. A. This republic was established by white men. B. It was established for white men. C. Our forefathers never intended that it should fall into the hands of any inferior race. D. Every effort to wrest from white men the management of its affairs in order to transfer it to the controls of blacks or any other color ought to remit them to share this control as an invasion of our sacred constitutional prerogatives and a violation of divinely established law." Now listen to this. "E. We would not rob the colored population of their rights. But we demand that they respect the rights of the white race in whose country they are permitted to reside." [LAUGHTER] "F. Purity of the white blood must be maintained." Now those are the racial ideals. Now the Christian ideals of this-- "One, we magnify the Bible as the basis of our Constitution, the foundation of our government, the source of our laws, the sheet anchor of our liberties, the most practical guide of right living, and the source of all true wisdom. Two, we teach the worship of God, for we have in mind the divine command 'Thou shall worship the Lord thy God. Three, we honor the Christ as the Klansman's only criterion of courage." [LAUGHS] Now this is in the Constitution of the thing. "And we seek at his hands that cleansing from sin and impurity which only he can give. Four, we believe that the highest expression of life is in service and in sacrifice of that which is right, that selfishness can have no place in a true Klansman's life and character. he must be moved by unselfish motives such as characterized our Lord the Christ and moved him to the highest service and to the supreme sacrifice for that which is right." And this is why I say, why is a man [INAUDIBLE] so much [INAUDIBLE] use the name of religion and someone in the name of Christ knew exactly the opposite of the evil things. And this is for [INAUDIBLE]. Yes. It drives you out of your wig. Right. And but see, the ground for this is it's so very subtle. You see, now watch the process. In the first place, the definition that is given of brotherhood means that, by definition, people who are not Christ-oriented are not brothers, I mean, by definition, you see. 9 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu And therefore, you have the obligation, if you are concerned about including your sense of brotherhood so as to bring them in. Then the mandate is clear. Convert them to Christ. And so it is not congenital-- not congenital. Yes, that's the word I want. This is not congenital. This is not indigenous. It is not something exists because they are existing in the world. It is a gift conferred upon them because of a choice they made. Mm-hmm. I haven't bothered with those pagan things in such a long time. [LAUGHTER] Pitts Theology Library Emory University Now this is the basis of the evangelization of the world. This is the basis of making of the Western civilization, westernizing the Orient. I mean, it's-- or it's the thing in your fraternity. It's interesting. The name-- I don't know whether it's still true. I haven't even looked at the-- do they have still [INAUDIBLE]? But you are barbarian, as well as just being a Greek. It's just the same thing. Or you are a mulata, rather than being black. All the contradictions and the paradoxes in this thing just shook you. It's just an illustration. Now the Church of the Black Madonna in Detroit-- have you heard of it-- the Church of the Black Madonna that what's his name? Oh, well, his name isn't important. But he had this buggy. Now that church-- 10 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Jesus and the Disinherited (1976) AudioWithTranscription Audio that is shown through the 3Play Media embedded interactive transcript Audio with Transcription <iframe width="100%" height="820" frameborder="0" src="/files/players/394-307_B.html" ></iframe> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 394-307_B Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Thurman, Howard Title A name given to the resource Morning, Jesus and the Disinherited II, IV (Jesus and the Disinherited) [Side B], 1976 Feb 28 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2/28/76 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="http://pid.emory.edu/ark:/25593/rp8k9">MSS 394</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available <a href="http://pitts.emory.edu/">Pitts Theology Library, Emory University</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a rel="license" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/"><img alt="Creative Commons License" style="border-width:0" src="https://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc/4.0/80x15.png" /></a><br />This work is licensed under a <a rel="license" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/">Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International License</a>. 2019. Description An account of the resource In this commentary and conversation on Jesus and the Disinherited, Thurman states that to be part of the brotherhood of man one has to be a believer of Christ, which a person becomes once they believe. Christians have a way to clean themselves of impurities, or in other words, have a permanently saved soul. Thurman speaks to Jesus’ definition of brotherhood and the fact that it will destroy civilizations because it’s different from the natural brotherhood that human societies have created between men. He states that if one wants to be brothers with someone, he has to convert him to Christ, which is the basis of evangelizing the world. Humans have to save those in need for God’s sake. Thurman also discusses the struggles of contemporary life and how to affirm one's own sense of way in the world. One can do so through meeting rare people to affirm and communicate with, but also through meditation and the listening of silence. Finally, he discusses his research of fascism in religious organizations, and how religion shaped their creation. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Mary Sellers Conley brotherhood Christ conversion facism