1 10 5 https://thurman.pitts.emory.edu/files/original/3dd8917a5b6df01b33c59945875d5584.pdf 043a79f20b711e32fa77ba09e4eb31f8 PDF Text Text Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu 394-041_B.mp3 Pitts Theology Library Emory University What I'm saying now may sound like a counsel of suicide. I'm not talking about that. Do you remember [? Edison's ?] wild duck? The doctor has a statement somewhere in which he says that the wild duck, when wounded, sinks himself into the bottom of the pond, choosing rather to give his life up to the spirit of the waters than to accept life on any terms that life may offer. Father, let the cup pass. I don't want to die and sweat like drops of blood burst from his forehead. So much, so much yet to do. If I had a little more time to lay more securely the foundation of the kingdom of heaven so as to guarantee on the redemption of man through all the eons and eons and eons that man is on the planet, just a little more time. Let the cup pass. And then after what seemed to him, I'm sure, 1,000 years of agony, he said, nevertheless, I am here on the cross dying. And I'm here following the unfolding of the logic of my life. At the moment of baptism, the heavens opened the Spirit descended upon me like a dove. And I heard thee say to me, with my ears, "thou art my son, my beloved. In thee, I'm well pleased." In the wilderness, you were there. "Man must not live by bread alone. Thou shalt worship God. In Him, only shalt thou serve." You were there on the Mount of Transfiguration when the glory was so full that spilled over all the universe, you were there. In the garden when I wrestled and finally came the great resolution, thy will be done, you were there. And now I'm dying on the cross. Where are you? My God, my God, where? And barring all Christology for a moment, I feel that in that moment, which according to the book of Mark was the last moment that Jesus Christ spent in that section of his life, that in that moment, he made the great transcendent discovery that death is not the worst thing in the world. To live and deny the integrity of my experience of my Father, to accept life on that term, it is better to die. And I do not think, you see, that any person really-- I do not think that any person has been able to transcend the fear of death until he discovers, in his own little, that there are some things for him that are worse than dying. So the most searching question at this point is, can you think of anything in your life rather than to renounce it, you would elect to die? When a man makes that discovery, he loses his fear of death. And the power of death is no longer an ultimate threat to his life. This is why-- [? I need ?] a minute. This is why dictators are people who wish to cower whole people. This is why one of the first things they do when they come into power is to create the kind of fear, anxiety, the kind of social climate, the kind of atmosphere that causes the individual in the state to place a supreme value on a human, on their human life. Now listen to this very carefully. For you see if I place a supreme value on my life, if you wish to control me, the only thing you need to do is to threaten to kill me. It is the answer of religion-and I will stop now-- that only man's deep inner sureness of God that he experiences life in the second dimension, life that contains both life and death. 1 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Then God becomes for him, God the Creator of life becomes for him the guarantor of life. And this is the word of religion. He comes to us as one unknown without a name if he can to the disciples by the lakeside, who knew him not. Pitts Theology Library Emory University He speaks to us the same language, "follow me." And to those who obey him, whether they be wise or simple, he will reveal himself in the sorrows and the trouble, in the deaths through which they shall pass in his fellowship. And as an ineffable mystery, they shall learn, in their own experience, who he is. God the Creator of life is man's final answer to the threat of death. So the psalmist says, "Thou that has searched me and known me, Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising. Thou understandest my thought afar off. Thou compassest my path and my lying down and art acquainted with on my ways. For there is not a word in my tongue, but lo, Oh Lord, thou knowest it altogether. Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid Thy hand upon me. Such knowledge is too wonderful for me. It is high, I cannot attain unto it. Whither shall I go from Thy spirit? Whither shall I flee from Thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there. If I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning, and fly to the uttermost parts of the sea, even there shall thy hand hold me. And thy right hand shall steady me. If I say, surely, the darkness shall cover me, even the night shall be light about me. The darkness hideth not from thee. But the night shineth as the day. The darkness and the light are both alike to thee. For thou hast possessed my reins. Thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. And in thy book, all my numbers were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. How precious, how precious also are thy thoughts unto to me, oh God, God. How great is the sum of them? If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand. When I am awake, I am still with thee. Search me, oh God, and know my heart. Try me and know my thoughts. And see if there be any wicked way in me. And lead me in the way everlasting, everlasting." 2 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Lay-clergy Institute (1973, First Congregational Church, Longmont, CO) Description An account of the resource The Lay-clergy Institute hosted by the First Congregational Church in Longmont, Colorado, is described as "a gift to the community, and provide opportunities to consider, discuss, and act on a wide array of philosophical and social issues." The program is now called the <a href="http://privilegetopromise.weebly.com/about-mind--soul.html">Mind &amp; Soul Series</a>.<br /><br />According to their website, "The First Congregational United Church of Christ has a long history of active social justice and bringing challenging conversations and topics to the forefront in our congregation and larger community." Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1973 AudioWithTranscription Audio that is shown through the 3Play Media embedded interactive transcript Audio with Transcription <iframe width="100%" height="820" frameborder="0" src="/files/players/394-041_B.html" ></iframe> Location The location of the interview, speech, lecture, or sermon Lay-clergy Institute, Longmont, Colorado Internal Notes Notes for project team Edited - GL 8/4 Original Title Title as transcribed from tape cassette The Dilemma of Life and Death (Lay-clergy Institute, Colorado) [Side B], 1973 Apr 2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 394-041_B Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Thurman, Howard Title A name given to the resource The Dilemma of Life and Death (continued), 1973 April 2 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1973-04-02 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="http://pid.emory.edu/ark:/25593/rp8k9">MSS 394</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available <a href="http://pitts.emory.edu/">Pitts Theology Library, Emory University</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/"><img style="border-width:0;" src="https://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc/4.0/80x15.png" alt="80x15.png" /></a><br />This work is licensed under a <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/">Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International License</a>. 2019. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant GEOMETRYCOLLECTION(POINT(-11701654.785325 4891350.5502076)) Description An account of the resource Monday evening sermon, second part Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Description by ShaCarolyn Halyard https://thurman.pitts.emory.edu/files/original/a408c227909af4cec17a8288b68850d2.pdf 01cc2894a27173d5284041491b7f9873 PDF Text Text Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu 394-041_A.mp3 Pitts Theology Library Emory University The sixth annual Lay Clergy Institute, The First Congregational Church, Longmont, Colorado. Dr. Howard Thurman led the Institute, speaking on the general theme, the dilemmas of the human spirit. This tape is Dr. Thurman's lecture of Monday evening April the second, entitled The Dilemma of Life and Death. Dr. Thurman is introduced by Reverend Terrell Schweitzer, associate pastor of First Church. This evening we have both the joy and the sorrow of having Dr. Howard Thurman share with us some of his insights into the meaning and the understanding of life. Joy, I would say because it is always a joy to be permitted-- I was going to say to be permitted to hear Dr. Thurman speak, but it might be more apropos to say to be permitted to listen to him think. And I would say sorrow because this will be his last evening with us on this trip. And sorrow, which I might parenthetically add, is probably of our own making because we would selfishly keep him here with us if only we could do so. It is always difficult, for me at least, to introduce another person for. Introductions should tell something about the other person, who they are, but this, of course, is entirely impossible. One simply cannot tell someone else who this third party is. And having said that, I think if I had an ounce of integrity, I would quit at this very moment and allow Dr. Thurman to speak. But unfortunately, I am devoid of any integrity whatsoever, even that very small amount of it. While I cannot tell you and would not presume to tell you who Dr. Howard Thurman that is, what I would do, if I might, is to tell you something of what Dr. Thurman is to me. He has been variously described as a philosopher, a poet, a mystic, a theologian, a scholar. And I would suppose he is indeed all of these things and probably much more beside. But to me, he is a member of that most honored and what I feel to be the oldest profession of humanity, and that, incidentally, is not to be confused with what is usually assumed to be the oldest profession of humanity. Rather, what I would refer to as the person that has been described in earlier history as the sage or as I would prefer to call them, the storyteller. For the storyteller is and always has been the one to whom the family or the clan comes and turns to ask those very great and personal and pertinent and very crucial questions of life and of its meaning. Perhaps one of the greatest illustrations of a storyteller were those who live so many years ago, whose answers to these very same questions are now found in those first chapters of the book of Genesis in the Old Testament. The situation in which they shared their wisdom with the brethren is not described in Genesis. But in my mind, I wonder if maybe it might not have gone something like this. The family, the clan, had gathered together in whatever abode that they were living in. They were probably seated around the fire, and I would perceive this as being nighttime. The work of the day had now been completed, the hunting, the gathering of food, finished. And I would perceive it to be during the course of the evening meal or maybe the evening meal had just been completed, and one of the youngsters-- for isn't it always one of the youngsters who disturb the peacefulness of their elders with those very pertinent or maybe impertinent, at 1 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Pitts Theology Library Emory University least very troublesome, questions. And I would perceive one of the youngsters turning and asking, how is it that we are here or maybe from whence have we come. And after listening to the response of the family storyteller, given out of the wisdom and experience of his day and age, in all probability, the youngster followed with another question. Or maybe it was a second youngster at this point who might have asked the question, why is it that we are here or maybe to where do we go, in essence, asking those great questions, what is the meaning of life for me and for all others. These questions of humanity continue to be current. They remain for each generation to again ask and to answer for itself out of the knowledge and the wisdom out of the experience of its day and age, as was the case with our fathers and our forefathers before them. And as truly will be the case with our children and our children's children, tonight, we too are privileged once again to gather together as a family to share together as the clan and to have one of our greatest storytellers share with us that which he has found in his search for the answer to these always contemporary questions. For the task of the storyteller is the same this night as it has been on all other nights. It is to tell, once again, the story of humanity. It is to tell the story of the faith and in so doing, I think, to tell the story of one's self. Dr. Thurman does each of these things eminently well, but I think he is one of the most unique of all storytellers. For in doing this, he somehow enables each of us not only to understand but enables each of us somehow to also tell our own stories. Dr. Thurman. "Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for thou art with me. Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of my enemies. Surely goodness and mercy shall show me all of the days of my life, and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever." "Oh sabbath, rest by Galilee. Oh calm of hills above where Jesus knelt to share with thee the silence of eternity interpreted by love." Amen. Before I begin, permit me to express my very simple appreciation and joy because of these very fateful days that it has been my privilege to live in your midst. At a time in the history of the world when so often there is so much that casts down and often so little that uplifts and inspires, I find myself hugging very tightly to my body, with a kind of quiet enthusiasm, those experiences in which there was a flowing of life rich with meaning. And these I remember at other times when life is very hard and the days are very difficult. So I thank you for giving me that kind of memory, and I rejoice in it. Tonight, our time together is divided into two parts. The first, I have three things I want to read. And I want to read them not merely because I think they are very important and relevant to the process of my own thinking about the dilemma of life and death, but it is one form of insurance that if I read these three things and after that, you don't get anything else, you will have this. "Because I have loved life, I shall have no sorrow to die. I have sent up my gladness on wings to be lost in the blue of the sky. I have run and leaped with the rain. I have taken the wind to my 2 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu breast. My cheek like a drowsy child to the face of the earth, I have pressed. Because I have loved life, I shall have no sorrow to die. Pitts Theology Library Emory University I have kissed young love on the lips. I have heard his song to the end. I have struck my hand like the seal in the loyal hand of a friend. I have known the peace of heaven, the comfort of work done well. I have longed for death in the darkness and risen alive out of hell. Because I have loved life, I shall have no sorrow to die. I give a share of my soul to the world where my course is run. I know that another shall finish the task I must leave undone. I know that no flower, no flint was in vain on the path I trod. As one looks on a face through a window, through life I have looked on God. Because I have loved life, I shall have no sorrow to die." And the second, "I shall die, but that is all that I shall do for Death. I hear him leading his horse out of the stall. I hear the clatter on the barn floor. Death is in haste. He has business in Cuba, business in the Balkans, many calls to make this morning. But I will not hold the bridle while he cinches the girth. And he may mount by himself. I will not give him a leg up. Though he flicks my shoulder with his whip, I will not tell him which way the fox ran. With his hoof on my breast, I will not tell him where the black boy hides in the swamp. I shall die, but that is all that I shall do for Death. I am not on Death's payroll. I will not tell him the whereabouts of my friends nor of my enemies either. Though he promise me much, I will not map him that route to any man's door. Am I a spy in the land of the living that I should deliver men to Death? Brother, the password and the plans of our city are safe with me. Never through me shall you be overcome. I shall die, but that is all that I shall do for death." And then finally, this is taken from the introduction to Bernard Shaw's Back to Methuselah. The captain says to Lavinia, "What you are facing is certain death. You have nothing left now but your faith and the craze of yours, this Christianity. Are your Christian fairy stories any truer than our stories about Jupiter and Diana?" Lavinia, "A man cannot die for a story and a dream. None of us believed the dreams and stories more devoutly than Spintho, but he could not face the great reality. What he would have called my faith has been oozing away minute by minute whilst I have been sitting here with reality becoming more and more real, with stories and dreams fading away into nothing." Captain, "Are you then going to die for nothing?" Lavinia, "Yes. That is the wonderful thing. It is since all the stories, all the dreams have gone that I have now no doubt that all that I must die for is something greater than dreams and stories." "But for what?" "I don't know. If it were for anything small enough to know, it would be too small to die for. I think I think I am going to die for God. Nothing else is really enough to die for." 3 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu "What is God?" said the captain. "When we know that, Captain," said Lavinia, "we shall be Gods ourselves." I think of life always in two dimensions. These are demonic things. Pitts Theology Library Emory University [LAUGHTER] Now I'll start over. I think of life always in two dimensions, first as life contrasted with death, life and death, twins. The ebb and flow of one basic rhythm. Life, death, one creative continuum in which all life participates. And then, I think of life as containing both life and death. Something that-- how to say it-something that contains both life and death. Life contrasted with death. Time, space, the living heartbeat of experience and then the end of that heartbeat. And then there's a sense in which life contains both life and death as units, as aspects of one total experience. You may recall that some time since I've been here, either last night or one of the nights or one of the mornings, I suggested that the thing that seems to me most impressive and, perhaps, most unmanageable to my mind is the fact that life is alive and that life does not die. And I suggested to you that perhaps one of the basic elements which go to make up this notion in my head is the fact that particular expressions of life die. You will die. I will die. But man does not die. Man keeps coming on because life is alive. And no expression of life can quite contain what life is. If I were to ask you, for instance, name one thing, one expression of you, one manifestation of you which totally represented you, what would you select? Can you think of any expression of your life that contains all that you mean by you? Can you think of any words that you use to convey an idea that quite says what you have in mind? For instance, when I was five, I imagine, I said to my mother, Mama, I love you. And when I was 10, if no fellows were around, I said to her, Mama, I love you. And then when I was 15, I said to her, Mama, I love you, and when I was 20, I used the same words. When I was 25, I used the same words. And when she was dying at 70, the last thing I said to her as she was dying was, Mama, remember I love you. All the time, I had been using the same words, Mama, I love you, the same four words. But there was a desert and a sea of difference between what I said to her as a grown mature man and what I said to her when I was five years old. Same words. And if she lived to be 1,000 years old and I lived to be 800 years old, I would still be trying to say it. Because I can't quite squeeze into any expression of my life what I mean, what I'm saying, of what I mean by what I'm saying. So that there is an aspect of life. And just sort of stick along with me as I wade through this because I have to. And you don't have any choice. [LAUGHTER] 4 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Pitts Theology Library Emory University You see, man is a binder of time. There is an aspect of you that can never be quite contained in anything you may be experiencing. For instance, since you've been sitting here now looking in this direction, some of you have been back home wondering whether or not you turned the fire off the stove or whether or not you locked your car or going into tomorrow or going into 9 o'clock wondering whether I will last longer than 9 o'clock. But all the time, you were sitting right here looking straight at me. There is an aspect of your personality that cannot be contained in any place, any spot, anywhere, any thing, a part of you that stands outside of the events of your life, a part of you that is you observing you doing what you are doing. A part of you is looking at you sitting in the pew. Now of course, if that break between you, the observer, and you, the participant, becomes too wide, then you have to see the shrink, but-[LAUGHTER] --but this is characteristic of personality. You are time binder. You play future, past. You go back and forth. You go through a door, through a window, through the ceiling. You play time and space as a musician plays the organ keys, outside watching. And every experience of your life, therefore, is what is called an event. So that man's experience of life is eventful, your life is made up of events. But some part of you is always standing outside of the event. All right. Now, you get the setting. Death, as contrasted with life. The life, death rhythm, the life, death twins, these make up that which is eventful. These are part of the events of your life. And if it is true, then, that you stand always outside of the event, then even death cannot contain all that you are, so that in man's experience of death, he observes himself participating in the event. Some part of man is untouched by the event so that I may be aware up to the very moment that I take my last breath. I may be aware of the fact that I'm dying and that I have died. "Yet all experience," Ulysses says, "is an arch wherethrough gleams that untraveled world whose margin fades forever and forever when I move." Now, the next step. If it be true, as I think it is, that I am never quite contained, even in the act of the experience of dying because death is a part of the eventful schema of man's experience, the panic, the dread, the fear, the anxiety that broods over the common life in the contemplation of death is not at this point. And I don't mean to be depressing tonight. But the fear, the dread, that's what I want, that the dread of death is at two points. One, it is very difficult for one to think of oneself as the subject of death. When we read a part of a syllogism, it says, all men die. That's one thing. But when I say, I too must die, that's another thing. It is difficult to deal with oneself as the subject. Not too difficult to deal with someone else as the subject. 5 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Now the second and most important part of the dread is that there is something about death that seems to be-- and listen very carefully-- there's something about death which seems to be a denial of the future. This is the source of the dread. Pitts Theology Library Emory University For you see, if there be no future, then the present has no significance and the past no meaning. For what we mean by the present is simply the point at which the past and the future meet and greet each other. That's the present right there. Have you seen ants crawling up an ant-[LAUGHTER] --this thing? And anytime one ant passes another ant, what do they do? They do this. Just this and pass on. They never distress. Now that little touch, that's what the present is. The past and the future meet and greet each other. That's the present. Now, if there is a denial of the future, as death seems to imply, then it is more than the spirit of man, more than the mind of man, can manage so that all great religions know that they cannot address themselves to the deepest and most surging needs and demands of the human spirit unless they deal with this central problem. How can death keep from being, to us, a denial of the future? What can I do? That's the word. What can I do that can immunize me against this dread of the loss of the future, this dread inherent, and the notion of death that death is a denial of the future? Now we deal with this in many ways. In all great religions, whole systems of theologies and whole doctrines, whole dogmas are geared to deal with this central core of trauma of the human spirit as it contemplates death. "I am the resurrection and the life. He that believeth in me shall never die." That's the way Christianity deals with the dread that is inherent in man's experience of death as a denial of the future. Now let's back up and come at it from another angle. The contradictions of life seem so final. I remember once, I had tonsillitis, and it was my first hospital experience, years and years and years ago. And the doctor painted my throat with silver nitrate. And I amused myself by trying to remember how my throat felt when it didn't hurt, and I couldn't. This hurt simply dominated my whole horizon because the contradictions seemed final and ultimate. But there's something in the human spirit that is never willing to accept the contradictions of life as being final, even in the Book, in our book-- in which there is etched, in very dramatic form, the ultimate dualism, heaven, hell-- as if to say by implication and by direction that the contradictions of life are really final, that the contradictions of life are really ultimate. And the form that this takes in the development of Christian thought is heaven, hell. And yet, tucked away in the Book is another phrase, there shall come a time when God will be all and in all when the dualisms run out, when the contradictions exhaust themselves and God will be all an in all. But one of the ministries of religion is to address itself to this central problem. All right. 6 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Now there are other ways, which we seek to deal with it. We try-- how to say this-- we try to guarantee in some way by attaching ourselves to material things to deal with this question. That will guarantee that we will participate in the future, that even when we die, that death will not be a denial of the future. Some way, we will continue. Pitts Theology Library Emory University And one of the deceptions of materialism is right here. It is a sober thing to realize that your automobile-- that may be a better illustration, but well, let's say it-- that your automobile will be around you here when you aren't. And if somehow you could find a way to insinuate yourself into what seems to be the permanent dimension of things, then if you can identify yourself with the thing, then you can sling defiance into the teeth of this aspect of death, which insists. That when you die, this is the denial of the future, so I will go on and on. There's something so very deceptive about things. I've written somewhere about my experience in this regard. When I was a student in seminary, I had an Ingersoll watch. There may be some of you who are old enough to know what I mean when I say an Ingersoll watch. And it ticked like an alarm clock. And in the days that I was very young and trying to develop a kind of form of presentation. So I would take my watch out and put it up on the pulpit as I'd see in other prestigious ministers do. [LAUGHTER] And the pulpit became a sounding board. [LAUGHTER] And the people who sat along in the front could hear this Ingersoll watch. Tick, tick, tick, tick. And one of my friends, who was blessed with an abundance of economic goods, said, I think those long silences that you have should not be interrupted by this [TAPPING] So he bought me an Elgin white gold watch. And I would have to put it up to my ear to hear it tick. Now, all during the period, during the Ingersoll watch period, I had a study group of maids and cooks and domestic servants two miles across town in Rochester. And I would go over there twice a week, and they were not off from work until about 10 o'clock, so we'd have this discussion group over sandwiches until midnight. And then, I would walk back the two miles to the seminary where streetcars would stop running, and I'd make all the shortcuts through all the alleys, getting back to the cemetery as quickly as possible. But after I had this gold watch, I would only walk down lighted streets. [LAUGHTER] This is the subtle thing that happened. If I can identify myself with that which seems to fling defiance into the teeth of time, then I can immunize myself against the possibility that death for me will not be a denial of the future. And so we spend much of our time and energy with all of 7 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu the creative efforts available to us working out details, which have to do with the future into which we shall not go, but details, which in some way we will deal with the threat that death is about the denial of the future. And of course, this is one of the roles of children in families. Pitts Theology Library Emory University Now, the next step. I don't know how to say this. Perhaps the greatest discovery that the spirit of man makes in the experience with death is this, that death is not the worst thing in the world, that there are some things in life that are worse than death. 8 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Lay-clergy Institute (1973, First Congregational Church, Longmont, CO) Description An account of the resource The Lay-clergy Institute hosted by the First Congregational Church in Longmont, Colorado, is described as "a gift to the community, and provide opportunities to consider, discuss, and act on a wide array of philosophical and social issues." The program is now called the <a href="http://privilegetopromise.weebly.com/about-mind--soul.html">Mind &amp; Soul Series</a>.<br /><br />According to their website, "The First Congregational United Church of Christ has a long history of active social justice and bringing challenging conversations and topics to the forefront in our congregation and larger community." Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1973 AudioWithTranscription Audio that is shown through the 3Play Media embedded interactive transcript Audio with Transcription <iframe width="100%" height="820" frameborder="0" src="/files/players/394-041_A.html" ></iframe> Location The location of the interview, speech, lecture, or sermon Lay-clergy Institute, Longmont, Colorado Original Title Title as transcribed from tape cassette The Dilemma of Life and Death (Lay-clergy Institute, Colorado) [Side A], 1973 Apr 2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 394-041_A Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Thurman, Howard Title A name given to the resource The Dilemma of Life and Death, 1973 April 2 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1973-04-02 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="http://pid.emory.edu/ark:/25593/rp8k9">MSS 394</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available <a href="http://pitts.emory.edu/">Pitts Theology Library, Emory University</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/"><img style="border-width:0;" src="https://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc/4.0/80x15.png" alt="80x15.png" /></a><br />This work is licensed under a <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/">Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International License</a>. 2019. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant GEOMETRYCOLLECTION(POINT(-11701654.785325 4891350.5502076)) Description An account of the resource Monday evening sermon, first part Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Description by ShaCarolyn Halyard https://thurman.pitts.emory.edu/files/original/b9970b6aa2c29024db6cf13c1e04ab67.pdf 94b103bdba3d9faf0280cceae300181d PDF Text Text Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu 394-042_B.mp3 Pitts Theology Library Emory University To stand, to stand where you are with your life, with all the things that you mean by you, to stand there in your situation, your predicament, your tight world of meaning and project yourself into someone else's tight world of meaning, while at the same time, you remain functioning and vital within your tight world of meaning. And this takes imagination. And I've described this somewhere. I was visiting with a friend of mine who had a little boy. And I was reading the morning's paper. And he rolled into the living room and stopped his kiddie cart at my feet. And he said, Mr. Thurman, will you help me change my tire? I just had a blow-out. So I put the newspaper down. I helped jack his car up. And we took the old shoe off and put the new one on and took the jack. And then he got in his car and tried to start the motor. But motor wouldn't turn over. Then he pulled out the choke. It was an old-fashioned car that had chokes. He pulled out the choke, and the motor wouldn't move. Then he got out and walked around and raised the hood and tinkered a little. Said everything is all right here. And he looked on the other side, everything seems to be all right. He got back in his car. And of course, I wasn't looking at him completely. But I kept him in my general line of vision, because I did not want to make him self-conscious. And I noticed that his little pre-adolescent shoulders tightened. And a grim look came in his face. And out of his mouth came the kind of creative spirals of profanity that I had ever heard from even an adult, because this is what he'd heard his father do at such a time. But still the motor wouldn't turn. So he got out came over to me, and he said, Mr. Thurman, do you have a pencil? I said yes. So I gave him my pencil. And he went around behind the car, took the top off the gas tank, put the pencil down in the gas tank, and held it up. He said, ah, the tank is empty. So he went out into the kitchen, asked his mother for a glass of water, came back, sat on this kiddie cart, drink the water, started his motor up and drove off. A sense of self-projection that enables you to stand in your place with your life, with all that it means to you privately, and project yourself into another human being and take soundings there on the inside with your imagination and then report those soundings back to you to inform the quality of your heart and the intensity of your [? compassion, ?] to give up any demand to be loved in return as a part of what is demanded of you, at last, to make the great and overwhelming discovery that love is its own validity, its own integrity, is this something beyond the human spirit to grasp? No. There's hardly an adult in this room who has not at some time, who has not at some time, watched with bated breath, this kind of miracle when at last the person discovers that love is its own reward, that to love is the great privilege that is manifest in the human spirit as a part of the givenness of God. 1 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu And that is why the Master said, when speaking of forgiveness, "how many times shall I forgive?" One time? An infinite number of times because merit, demerit, these have nothing to do with-- as wonderful as they are when they are experienced. Pitts Theology Library Emory University And a time in the world when as a result of the scientific development of our period, as a result of the creative mind of man brooding over the stubborn and unyielding and recalcitrant aspects of impersonal nature, man has been able to extract from nature these secrets which has given to him power over life, so that for the first time in the memory of the race, man has in his power the ability to destroy life on the planet. For the first time in the history of man on the planet, the continuity of the human race, the biological continuity of the human race is in balance. At a time when life is depersonalized, at a time when it is so difficult for a human being to feel that he is worth anything. When you can feel the muted cry of modern man, I'm here, in the vastness of the universe with all of the power in our hands to destroy life, we want to say I'm here, that I'm me. I'm here. So I arrive at one very simple conclusion. And with this I stop. There is but one place of refuge for any man on this planet, and that is in another man's heart. The only safe place is in another man's heart. Therefore, make of your heart a swinging door that you may discover what it is that at last that you, as you where you are, what it is at last, that ultimately you amount to. So the Apostle says, "my prayer to God is that your love may grow more and more rich in knowledge and it all manner of insight, that you may have a sense of what is vital, that you may be transparent and of no harm to anyone in view of the day of Christ, your life covered that harvest of righteousness that he produces to the praise and to the glory of God." I have found a way to your heart. And that way is through my heart. our words are ended, our Father, broken limited, bruised, fragmented words. But we are not ended, our Father. Teach us, oh living God, how we may, each one of us, become a lung through which Thou cannst breathe that Thou wilt not repent because Thou has given life to us on this planet. Teach us, oh guide of the human heart, how we may become the living expression of Thy love for all Thy children. Don't be ashamed of us, for Thou has made us for Thyself. And our souls are restless until they find their rest in Thee, oh love of God, love of God, love of God, love of God, God. 2 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Lay-clergy Institute (1973, First Congregational Church, Longmont, CO) Description An account of the resource The Lay-clergy Institute hosted by the First Congregational Church in Longmont, Colorado, is described as "a gift to the community, and provide opportunities to consider, discuss, and act on a wide array of philosophical and social issues." The program is now called the <a href="http://privilegetopromise.weebly.com/about-mind--soul.html">Mind &amp; Soul Series</a>.<br /><br />According to their website, "The First Congregational United Church of Christ has a long history of active social justice and bringing challenging conversations and topics to the forefront in our congregation and larger community." Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1973 AudioWithTranscription Audio that is shown through the 3Play Media embedded interactive transcript Audio with Transcription <iframe width="100%" height="820" frameborder="0" src="/files/players/394-042_B.html" ></iframe> Location The location of the interview, speech, lecture, or sermon Lay-clergy Institute, Longmont, Colorado Internal Notes Notes for project team Audio gets cut off when Thurman says [? compassion ?] - GL 5/16/19 Original Title Title as transcribed from tape cassette The Dilemma of Love and Hate (Lay-clergy Institute, Colorado) [Side B], 1973 Apr 1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 394-042_B Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Thurman, Howard Title A name given to the resource The Dilemma of Love and Hate (continued), 1973 April 1 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1973-04-01 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="http://pid.emory.edu/ark:/25593/rp8k9">MSS 394</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available <a href="http://pitts.emory.edu/">Pitts Theology Library, Emory University</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/"><img style="border-width:0;" src="https://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc/4.0/80x15.png" alt="80x15.png" /></a><br />This work is licensed under a <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/">Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International License</a>. 2019. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant GEOMETRYCOLLECTION(POINT(-11701654.785325 4891350.5502076)) Description An account of the resource Sunday evening sermon, second part Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Description by ShaCarolyn Halyard https://thurman.pitts.emory.edu/files/original/d07c1aa72252870cda82a3e22f0a0253.pdf 851a3c132733c9b7dd22bc55ba018f34 PDF Text Text Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu 394-042_A.mp3 Pitts Theology Library Emory University In the Sixth Annual Lay Clergy Institute of the First Congregational Church of Longmont, Colorado. Dr. Howard Thurman led the Institute, speaking on the general theme the dilemmas of the human spirit. This tape is Dr. Thurman's lecture of Sunday evening, April the 1st, entitled "The Dilemma of Love and Hate." Dr. Thurman is introduced by Mrs. Mildred Gamble, moderator of First Church. As moderator of First Congregational Church United Church of Christ, I, too, welcome you to the Sixth Annual Lay Clergy Institute. Conceived in 1968 as a means of facilitating man's continual quest for religious experience, the Lay Clergy Institute was initiated by the controversial late Bishop Pike. For many of us, the highlight of that first institute was the Sunday morning worship service, at which time a very human Bishop Pike led us in spirited song and then challenged us to grow in wisdom and in stature, even as Jesus did. The quest continued in 1969 with Dr. Howard Thurman, illuminating the darkness for us by showing us how to become persons by an other-than-self reference, which is other persons. Popular newspaper columnist Sidney Harris led our quest in 1970. 1971 brought the dean of Yale's Divinity School, Colin Williams. His Sunday afternoon presentation of "Jesus Christ-- the Clue to History" caused us to look at the great American dream as a challenge to make of this country a new Israel. Last year, Roman Catholic lay theologian Michael Novak, author of the Unmeltable Ethnics, guided us with perception from the experience of nothingness through the ascent of the mountain to its ultimate flight of the dove. April 1, 1973, heralds the return of Dr. Howard Thurman to Longmont, Colorado, and the Lay Clergy Institute with its overall theme the dilemmas of the human spirit. This morning, we heard Dr. Thurman address himself to the dilemmas of the religious experience. Tonight, he speaks to us on the dilemmas of love and hate. Tomorrow morning at 10:00, he will meet with the public in open dialogue in Fellowship Hall. Tomorrow night at 8:00, Dr. Thurman will conclude this year's institute with his insights on the dilemmas of life and death. Born in 1900 in a two-room house in Daytona Beach, Florida, Howard Thurman, after the death of his father, was reared by a determined mother and an ex-slave grandmother, who inspired young Howard to seek an education and to become a scholar. As a religious scholar, Dr. Thurman studied at Morehouse College in Georgia, at Columbia, at Colgate in Rochester, and with Dr. Rufus Jones, the great Quaker. From these studies, he concluded that the spiritual experience of the human race is essentially one single experience. In 1932, Dr. Thurman ended his years as teacher of the philosophy of religion at Morehouse and Spelman Colleges in Atlanta. Until 1943, he served as dean of the chapel and professor of theology at Howard University in Washington, DC. It was during his tenure there that he and his wife Sue visited India and met with Gandhi. It was in India that the mind of Howard Thurman made initial contact with an idea-- the idea of a church that would cross all lines to remove all barriers. 1 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu The process of conception, growth, birth, and development of an idea resulted, eventually in his move to San Francisco. This city of 48 different ethnic groups provided him with the opportunity to serve for nine years as pastor of the Church for the Fellowship of all Peoples, the first interfaith, interracial church in the United States. It was while he served here that a Life magazine poll selected him as one of America's 10 greatest preachers. Pitts Theology Library Emory University From San Francisco, Dr. Thurman went to Boston University to create an interracial, interdenominational religious center. He retired from this position in 1965 and, since then, has served as Dean Emeritus of Marsh Chapel of Boston University. In addition to serving as scholar, teacher, pastor, and lecturer, Howard Thurman has authored numerous books, most of which bear beautiful, metaphorical, poetic titles. Two weeks ago, Harper and Row released his latest book The Track to the Water's Edge. In October, another Thurman book, The Mood of Christmas, will be released. In it will be a literary collage of anecdotes, poems, meditations written over a lifetime. This week, I read again two of Howard Thurman's books-- The Creative Encounter and The Luminous Darkness. Permit me to read a portion of the closing paragraphs from each. I selected these passages because they will reveal to you the vision that Howard Thurman has lived. I quote, "It is my belief that in the presence of God, there is neither male nor female, white nor black, gentile nor Jew, Protestant nor Catholic, Hindu, Buddhist nor Muslim, but a human spirit stripped to the literal substance of itself before God. It is a spirit that makes for wholeness and for community. It knows no country, and its allies are to be found wherever the heart is kind and the collective will and the private endeavor seek to make justice where injustice abounds, to make peace where chaos is rampant, and to make the voice heard on behalf of the helpless and the weak. It is the voice of God and the voice of man. It is the meaning of all the strivings of the whole human race toward a world of friendly men underneath a friendly sky." Join with me, please in greeting a friendly man underneath a friendly sky-- Dr. Howard Thurman. [APPLAUSE] Now, let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in Thy sight, O Lord, my rock and my Redeemer. Amen. I dreamt God took my soul to Hell. Hell was a fair place. The water of the lake was blue, and I said to God, I like this place. And God said, do you? Birds sang. Turf came to the water edge, and trees grew from it. Away off among the trees, I saw beautiful women walking. Their clothes were of many delicate colors and clung to them, and they were tall and graceful and had yellow hair. Their robes trailed over the grass. They glided in and out among the trees. And over their heads hung yellow fruit, like large pears of melted gold. And I said to God, it is very fair. I would love a taste. And God said, wait. And after a while, I noticed a very fair woman pass. She looked this way and that and drew down a branch, and it seemed that she kissed the fruit upon it softly and went on her way. And her dress made no rustle as she passed o'er the grass. And when I saw her no more, from among the stems came another woman, fair as she had been, in a delicate, tinted robe. 2 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu She looked this way and that. When she saw no one there, she drew down the fruit, and when she had looked it over, she found a place. She put her mouth to it softly and went away. Pitts Theology Library Emory University And I saw other and other women come, making no noise, and they glided away, also, over the grass. And I said to God, what are they doing? And God said, they are poisoning. And I said, how? And God said, they touch the fruit with their lips. When they have made a tiny wound in it with their four teeth, they set in it that which is under their tongue. They close it with their lip, that no man may see the place, and pass on. And I said to God, why do they do that? And God said, that another may not eat. And I said to God, but if they poison all the fruit, none dare eat. What do they gain? And God said, nothing. I said, are they not afraid that they themselves may bite where another has bitten? And God said, yes, they are afraid. In Hell, all men fear. And then he called me further, and the water of the lake seemed less blue now. And to the right, among the trees, were men working. And I said to God, I should like to go and work with these men. Hell must be a very fruitful place, because the grass is so green. And God said, nothing grows in the garden they are making. We stood looking, and I saw them working among the bushes, digging holes. But in the holes, they set nothing. And when they had covered them with sticks and earth, each went away off and sat behind the bushes, watching. And I noticed that as each man walked, he set his foot down carefully, looking where he trod. And I said to God, what are they doing? And God said, they're making pitfalls into which their fellows may sink. And I said to God, why do they do that? And God said, because each man thinks that when his brother falls, he will rise. And I said to God, how will he rise? And God said, he will not rise. And I saw their eyes gleam from behind the bushes. And I said to God, are these men sane? And God said no, they're not sane. There's no sane man in Hell. The dilemma of love and hate. I began my thinking with you this evening with the commonplace, but to me very important, insight that man's feeling for love, man's insight concerning love, comes out of the original religious experience of the race. And one of the tragedies of our time is that we have separated, in Western culture, we have separated the love ethic from the religious insight. And why do I say that it arises out of man's inner sense of the religious experience, a part of the memory of the race in its experience with its creator? Because in the religious experience, a man discovers what it is that ultimately he amounts to. It is here, in the primary exposure to his God, as was quoted in the passage, he is peeled of all of the superficial things, all of his cumulative baggage of his life, all of his little identities, all of his primary and secondary defense mechanisms, all of the things by which he lays claim to his significance in a manner external to himself. All of these things are stripped away, and the man finds that, at last, he can be in touch with his own reality. And it is here that he discovers, for the first time, a sense of self. And there can be no relatedness to other people, no meaningful structure or relationship between one man and another if there is no sense of self. Now that is the background for my thinking. 3 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Now, I begin to wait for a little while. If I were to ask you tonight, above all other things in the world, what do you want most profoundly, most intimately, most surely, most securely? I don't know what you would say, but my guess is whatever you said, what you would mean is what I'm going to say. You would say, I want to be understood. Pitts Theology Library Emory University I want the experience of ridding myself, even for one swirling moment, of all of my defenses so that I can just be me without prelude, without postlude, without any of the things to which I refer when I want to give to myself meaning. I just want to be me, completely exposed and absolutely secure. This is what we want, and this is love. One day, I came into our living room in the early days in San Francisco, when our younger daughter was about 11, and the smell of San Francisco was all over me. And she said something. I don't remember what she said, but I answered her in a good-- excuse me. You dropped something. I answered her in good fatherly fashion. And for the first time in the years that I'd known her, the long 11 years, she said, with quiet rage, the kind of rage that only an 11-year-old girl can have, Daddy, she said, when are you going to stop treating me like a daughter? There is no such thing as a daughter. I'm Ann. I'm 11 years old, so and so and so and so. She spelled out her credentials. And until that time, I thought I was at least the second most significant father in the world. But it had never occurred to me that I was dealing with her as an abstraction. And what she wanted of me, what she needed desperately of me, was to have to deal with as a concretion. Somehow, if I could bypass all of the external things between us and touch her at her reality-- and in so doing, she would become aware of her own reality. And this is to love. And the working definition is very simple. To love is to deal with another person at a point in that person that is beyond all his faults and all his virtues. To touch another human being at that point in him or her that is beyond all the faults, all the virtues, and to look upon life from the other side, to see it through the eyes of the other, even as you remain yourself. And this is a particular gift that little children have. They move directly. I was over visiting with your assistant associate minister, and little Tweaky- Twinkie? Twiggy? Anyway, when I walked in, she moved straight to my center, bypassed my size, my age, whatever learning I had, my friendship with her father and mother. But she went straight to a center in me that had nothing to do with any of these things. And my response was what? My response was to move straight to that center in her. And I found that even though I had forgotten how to listen to that form of English that she spoke, I understood, from the other side, this is love. And everybody needs it. Because life, you see, lives on life. Live lives by eating life. And I think this is the growth in the sense of unrefined basis for the doctrine and religion of eternal life. This is where it is rooted. Life never dies, because life eats itself. Life consumes its own vitality. And love is the vehicle by which we nourish each other on each other. Now, hate is a denial of this. But I think that we have been rather superficial in dealing with the dynamics of hate in our society, and I'd like to talk about it for a few minutes. Both in personal 4 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu primary relationships and collective relationships. For, again and again, in the story of the man on this planet, when he is face to face with overwhelming, overpowering forces with reference to which he is unable to make any sort of creative adjustment, when, at last, his life is at stake, one of the rules-- and think carefully with me, please, tonight. Pitts Theology Library Emory University One of the rules of hatred is to provide a solid place on which to stand and affirm one's sense of persona, sense of self, in the presence of forces with which one cannot deal and with which one cannot relate. Hate, in this sense, then becomes a defense mechanism. It is the last thing, the last private, inner rallying of the personality, when it cannot be nourished or touched by anything external to itself. And here, when the hate crystallizes, it affirms the significance of the ego. It reinforces the self by dealing externally with forces with which it cannot cope. And there can be no dealing with hate, either from the point of view of ethics or morality or religion, if the positive, though destructive, aspect of hate is not understood. It is destructive because it isolates the individual from other individuals. It builds a wall, and it denies the reality, denies the existence of the other person. And there is something about the human spirit that cannot stand isolation. It cannot stand being cut off, being separated from its food. And what is its food? Other human beings. So anything that separates one human being from another, even though it may be a defense which the individual uses in an effort to save his own life, becomes, finally, that which makes him wither and die. And if we do not understand this, then we deal with hate as something that has no dynamic, no positive dimension. It is positive and destructive, while love is positive and creative. And it's an important distinction. Now, with this part of the discussion, I want to move to the aspects of the dilemma. The dilemma of love is this-- when I love, I give up the initiative over my own life. I trust. And there is something in the human spirit that resists giving up the initiative over your own life, even to God. And this is a central problem in all commitment, all religious commitment. For it is required that we give to God, in the religious commitment, the nerve center of our consent, that we give up the initiative over our own lives so that we do as God wills us to do. We let ourselves down in the permissiveness and the grace and the love and the tenderness and the compassion of God, but we give up the initiative over our own lives. And this is what we cannot quite stand. Because when you give up initiative over your own life, there's always a possibility that the person to whom you give up your initiative will demand of you something that you have no intention of doing. Because you aren't sure, you see, that they are dealing with your life from the other side, where you are. They're dealing with your life on the side where they are, and perhaps they have not learned how to go down this way and come up inside of you. We all tend to try to get to the inside of the other person by going this way, and you can't do it. You go down and come up inside. So that when I love, I want the initiative, and I am never sure that I have enough wisdom, tenderness, compassion, grace to deal with that initiative responsibly. 5 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu But I want to give up the initiative. This is a part of the hunger of my heart. I want to yield. I want the sense of waif and validity that comes when I am-- when my trust is so overwhelming that I trust the loved one to do with my life what I do not have enough insight to do with my own life. And always, this is what I'm trying to find. Pitts Theology Library Emory University It is for this reason that when I love, I will do gladly for the beloved what no power in Heaven or Hell or on Earth could make me do if I did not love. And it is for this reason that when men begin to think seriously about the creator, about God, they think of Him in terms of love. And as I was trying to suggest, there are devils, Heaven haters. Now, the next step in our process is that it takes a discipline to love. Discipline. For, you see, how can I say it? The person has to move within the scope of what I call my magnetic field. As long as they're outside of my magnetic field, they don't count. That's why, for instance, when nations go to war-- particularly nations that are part of the Christian tradition. When nations go to war, what is the first and most important and critical decision or act or action that the nation has to take? Redefine the enemy so that the enemy is no longer a member of the human race. And as soon as he is out of bounds, then it's open season. I can do anything to him without attacking my own deep sense of inner values, because he is not in my magnetic field. And the dilemma is, again, that as a result of my experience, I have a sense-- a feel, as the Apostle Paul puts it-- that moves all men to come within my magnetic field, but I don't want this. I know that it is important for me to have people outside of my magnetic field so I can do various things and keep my self-respect. It's like the Aztecs, several hundred years ago, in Central Mexico and Central America. Their religion rested on whether or not they are able, on a high holy day, to sacrifice a male that had been taken in battle. He was sacrificed and dropped down the long steps to his death. They woke up to discover they had conquered everybody, and this was a threat to the religion. Because if there's no enemy to fight, they can't get a male taken in battle to sacrifice. So they unconquered some people, and then they'd wage war with them once a year and get a male to sacrifice. We struggle to keep the magnetic field secure, agreeable, acceptable, when at the center of our own experience of love, there is always the pressure to push the magnetic field wider and wider and wider and wider. And it is this insistence that is generic in the love experience, that demands that I widen the area. And yet, at the same time, it is my own sense of wanting to keep my own autonomy over my own life and the lives of those in my magnetic field that causes me to resist, to pause, to revise my values. And we see this most dramatically-- the Christian sees this most dramatically in times of war, again, I refer to, when I must give over the initiative of my life to the state. And this is very crucial. And one does not have to be a flag waver or anything of that sort. I'm dealing at the very ground of the significance of a private person. I can give up the initiative over my own life, and I offer it in love where there is this response or no response. But it's very difficult for me to keep it up to the state. 6 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Pitts Theology Library Emory University The Poet of the Desert describes the dilemma in a very interesting way. He's talking about the Civil War, and he says, "My father prayed when he drew a bead on the gray coats back in those blazing years, when the house was divided. Bless his old heart. There never was truer or kinder, yet my father prayed while hoping that the ball from his clumsy old musket might thud to the body of some hot-eyed, young Southerner and tumble him limp in the mud of the Vicksburg trenches. That was my father, praying and shooting wholeheartedly, never a doubt. But what about me and my day of battle? Could I put my prayers behind a slim Springfield bullet? Hardly. Except to mutter, Jesus, you and I part company here. My country calls for my body and takes my soul, also. Do you see those humans herded and driven against me? Turn away, Jesus, for I must kill them. Why? Such evils brings some vast, vague good to my country. I do not know. I do not know. But today, my business is killing, and my Gods must be luck and the Devil till this thing is over. Turn away, Jesus. Your eyes make me slack in my duty. My father could mix his prayers with his shooting, and he was a great, good man in his generation. But if I should pray like him, I'd spoil it by laughing. What is the matter? This is the dilemma, always." And now-- almost finally, but not quite finally-- there is a discipline. And the first aspect of the discipline is to widen the area of your magnetic field, the field of caring. Where with reference to which you feel responsible to touch the people in this area at a point in themselves, beyond all of their faults and all of their virtues. That's the first discipline. And the second is it requires a kind of imagination. How to say it? 7 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Lay-clergy Institute (1973, First Congregational Church, Longmont, CO) Description An account of the resource The Lay-clergy Institute hosted by the First Congregational Church in Longmont, Colorado, is described as "a gift to the community, and provide opportunities to consider, discuss, and act on a wide array of philosophical and social issues." The program is now called the <a href="http://privilegetopromise.weebly.com/about-mind--soul.html">Mind &amp; Soul Series</a>.<br /><br />According to their website, "The First Congregational United Church of Christ has a long history of active social justice and bringing challenging conversations and topics to the forefront in our congregation and larger community." Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1973 AudioWithTranscription Audio that is shown through the 3Play Media embedded interactive transcript Audio with Transcription <iframe width="100%" height="820" frameborder="0" src="/files/players/394-042_A.html" ></iframe> Location The location of the interview, speech, lecture, or sermon Lay-clergy Institute, Longmont, Colorado Original Title Title as transcribed from tape cassette The Dilemma of Love and Hate (Lay-clergy Institute, Colorado) [Side A], 1973 Apr 1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 394-042_A Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Thurman, Howard Title A name given to the resource The Dilemma of Love and Hate, 1973 April 1 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1973-04-01 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="http://pid.emory.edu/ark:/25593/rp8k9">MSS 394</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available <a href="http://pitts.emory.edu/">Pitts Theology Library, Emory University</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/"><img style="border-width:0;" src="https://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc/4.0/80x15.png" alt="80x15.png" /></a><br />This work is licensed under a <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/">Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International License</a>. 2019. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant GEOMETRYCOLLECTION(POINT(-11701654.785325 4891350.5502076)) Description An account of the resource Sunday evening sermon, first part Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Description by ShaCarolyn Halyard https://thurman.pitts.emory.edu/files/original/7d0baa3bc812f1daa2182d2a82148a1d.pdf 675a01df76248c2baa5ac45fea21e4df PDF Text Text Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu 394-040_A.mp3 Pitts Theology Library Emory University The sixth annual Lay Clergy Institute of the First Congregational Church, Longmont, Colorado. Dr. Howard Thurman led the Institute, speaking on the general theme, the dilemmas of the human spirit. This tape is Dr. Thurman's sermon and prayer of Sunday morning, April the 1st. The sermon is entitled The Dilemma of Religious Experience. Dr. Thurman is introduced by the Reverend Donald Henze, senior pastor of First church. It's our great pleasure again this year, after four years of-- interval of four years to have returned with us our great friend and communicator of the faith, Dr. Thurman, who will be sharing with us this morning and tonight, and again twice tomorrow. We will be talking about that more in a few moments. The Dilemma of Religious Experience. I want to read two things as a background for a meditation. The first is-- go thy way all things say. Thou hast thy way to go, thou hast thy day to live, thou hast thy need of thee to make in the hearts of others. Do thy thing and be thou sure of this. No other can do for thee that appointed thee of God. Not any light shall fall upon the road for other eyes. Thee, the angel calls as he calls others, and thy life to thee is precious as the greatest life can be to him. So live thy life and go thy way. A man can always make an offering of himself to God. This is far different from offering one's special talents, as important as that may be. It is more than the offering of one's money or resources, however great or limited they may be. It is to offer one's life, to put at the disposal of God one's life, not merely one's needs, one's demands, one's frustrations, one's unresolved problems. This is to say to God, here I am. I put myself at your disposal to be where I am, all of me, to do where I am with all of me, to respond to life where I am without bargaining and without bartering. This means more than being a dutiful son or husband, or wife, or a satisfied worker in a monotonous job. It means putting one's self at the disposal of the hours, of the days, of the months, to feel of their quality, to sense their demands independent of what one demands, independent of what one thinks should come back in returns or dividends. With this freedom of movement within one's own spirit, provision is made for the meaningful activity and the significant undertaking, all of this without any apparent change in one's external circumstances. What will thou have me do? I am ready to do everything and to do nothing, to desire nothing and to desire everything. I need not say that I am very happy to be here. There are three images that I want to place before your mind, but in order to prepare the climate, the atmosphere, the background for them, I must say that in my own thought and in my own feeling, my religious outlook is very simple. To me, God is the creator of life, not merely the creator of individual expressions of life, but God is the creator of the living substance that out of which all particular expressions of life arise. That God is the creator not only of life and not only of the living substance, but God is the creator of existence, that God bottoms existence so that there is no expression, no manifestation, no form of life that is far removed from this guarantor of all life and all existence. And therefore, within every expression of life, God is seeking to realize himself in you, in me, in all of life. 1 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu The religious experience, then, is that moment or that extended moment when that which is deepest, most real, most [? phantom, ?] most basic in a man's life becomes a part of his self consciousness. Pitts Theology Library Emory University Now the three pictures. In the scripture lesson this morning, the master presented himself to John the Baptist for baptism. And we don't know very much about this, how the word from the Jordan finally got up to the area in which Jesus was living, and what kind of response-- what was triggered in his mind when he first heard about John the Baptist preaching at the Jordan. But whatever that magic may have been or whatever the reason, whatever the picture, his response was to go. And when he went and presented himself to John for baptism, it is written in the book that when he came up out of the water, a tremendous thing happened. The heavens opened. Only he saw it. The other people around didn't see it. The heavens opened and the spirit of God descended upon him like a dove. And he-- no one else-- he heard the voice of God say, thou-not the rest of the people-- thou art my son, my beloved, in thee I am well pleased. The moment when the deepest thing in him said yes to the deepest thing in life. And every man at some time, somewhere in his journey, has that kind of encounter. It may not be as dramatic. It may be a slow, simple evolution, a slow breaking of light that illuminates his path, but every man is trying either to live out the implication of his moment or is spending his life denying the implication of his moment. For a man's life is one thing, and the dilemma of the religious experience, the dilemma of the moment of encounter, is this. Because the experience is so private, so personal, so altogether intimate, as if I and I alone existed in all the universe, and only I can hear what is being said and only I can feel what is being felt, because this is so private, so intimate, so personal, it would seem that therefore it must be exclusive. But when a man discovers that what he is experiencing in his most intimate and primary life is also a part of the experience of mankind, then his dilemma is in the fact that how can he make a universal meaning or application to a private, personal, intimate experience? And there's only one way by which he can do that, and that is to live out in the details of his days the implication of his moment of encounter. So when Jesus had this moment, what did he do? He went away to ask himself one question. What is the bearing, what is the meaning of this experience on all the rest of my life? Hence the struggle in the wilderness, the temptations, and so forth. That's the first picture. The second picture, there is a prophet, his name is Isaiah. His great friend, the king, had died from a loathsome disease, leprosy. And when the word came to Isaiah that the king had died, he went to the place which was the place of his encounter, he went to the temple. And as he sat there wrapped in his grief, behold, the heavens opened again, and he heard the voice of God say, whom shall I send? Who will go for us? And then Isaiah said, here am I, send me. The only way that I can hold the vision is to work the vision out in my private life, in my professional life, in my commitment to life. That's the second. The third does not come from the Bible. It is the story of the blue cat of Castletown. It's a children's story written for adults. This rumor, this tradition, this myth, goes somewhat as follows. It is written that if a cat is fortunate enough to have a kitten that is born with all blue hairs and pink ears, it will be given to that kitten to hear the song of the river. 2 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Pitts Theology Library Emory University Now, no mother cat wanted to give birth to a blue cat, because if she did, when the blue cat-kitten, when he heard the song of the river or when he would hear the song of the river, he would have to leave his mother, leave everything, and follow the music, working out the song in the story of his life. So in this story, a kitten is born. He has all blue hairs, but four little black hairs in his tail. And every day, the mother kept watching, hoping that these four little black hairs would remain and she would not have a blue cat with pink ears, because she wanted to keep her child close to her. And if the child heard the sound of the river, he would have to forsake all and follow. And one by one, the hairs dropped out and she had her problem. Her kitten was sleeping peacefully, attending to his own sleeping business, when there came, floating up from the river in a quiet rhythm, the melody of the song of the river. It came through the door and insinuated itself under the dream that the cat was having, and he got up not knowing very much about what he was doing because he was not quite awake. And he followed the song until he came to the river, and there, the river taught him the song, the theme of which was, sing your own song, said the river, sing well. And he followed this. And the river said, you must find a home for yourself, and how will you know when you have come home? You will sing the song of the river, and if the person who hears it recognizes it, then you will know that you have come home. So the first-- without going into detail with this fascinating story, and it's a great temptation, I assure you-- he came to a pewter makers house. And the pewter maker was busy at his bench. The kitten stretched out in the doorway and began to sing. And as soon as he did, the pewter maker froze in his tracks and a far away look came in his eyes. And then he remembered long, long ago, he knew the song of the river. And during the time that he was singing the song of the river, when he fashioned his pewter basins or bowls, the workmanship was such a complete and utter expression of what he felt and what he wanted to announce to life that he would put on the bottom of it his seal, because he wanted in the whole world to know that this creation was a manifestation of his insight, his response to his genius, to his leading. And then he married, and there were children. He needed more money. And then the tourists started coming, and they liked this workmanship, and he began to produce it and produce it. And little by little, the song of the river began to die in him. And he was so ashamed of his product, that he would not put his name on the bottom, his seal, because he did not want anyone else to know that he had betrayed that which sent him on his way long ago. The three pictures. What has happened to the thing which, once upon a time, stirred you, gave you a sense that at last I can be of ultimate [? weight, ?] that there is something, my thing, that I can do that will be a revelation of the truth that I have felt and that I experience? What has happened to it? Do you remember? It may have been gradual. It may have been due to the result of some moment of crisis in your life, when suddenly you were brought face to face with yourself, with what it is that you really mean. What is it at bottom that you want to do with you? How do you want to manifest your life? And then all kinds of things came into play, disappointments, frustrations, curious kinds of ambitions, all kinds of things. And then every now and then, when you're sitting alone and quiet, 3 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu or now and then you read a line in a book or you see a picture or you hear a phrase, and then way back somewhere in the complex story of your private journey, you remember. Pitts Theology Library Emory University And then what do you do? Do you say it's too late? Or do you shake your head and open your eyes again and say, I thought I'd settled that 30 years ago. The heavens opened and he saw the spirit descend upon him like a dove. And he heard the voice of God say, thou art my son in whom I am well pleased. He went to the will of this to work out the implications of the vision so that his life would not be denial of that to which, as his deepest center, he had said yes. Or no. Where do you stand this morning? Is your life a manifestation of what it is that, deep within yourself, you are trying to say to God, concerning you? Or, are sections of your life completely shut off so that you say, this is a part of my commitment, and this is something else, and the two can never be mixed, as if a man's life were many things. A man's life is one thing. And if in the living of his life he betrays that which in his most lucid moments he knows himself to be, then all of his days, however gifted, however prosperous, however wonderful he may be in the sight of others, all of his days, he knows that his life is a denial of his own deepest sense of his own integrity and commitment. Now, I put it together with another picture, and I [INAUDIBLE]. As I listened to the singing of Were You There When They Crucified My Lord? My mind went back some 30 years ago, 35 years ago, and I was seated with Mrs. Thurman and another friend in a bungalow tent in an open field, talking with three or four East Indian leaders. And among them was Mahatma Gandhi. And after two or three hours of conversation, and we were ready to go to our train to get back to Bombay, Mr. Gandhi asked us if we would do him a favor. And under the aegis of that kind of moment, you promise anything. So I said, oh, yes. He said, will you sing a song for me? And I said, well, I can't sing, but I can work at it. Mrs. Thurman sings, and the young man with us sings, but I will, oh yes, if you know the song. And he said it is the song that lives in my mind all the time, because it moves to the center of the moment of insight, when a man is stripped to the literal substance of himself and he stands naked before his god. And I said, well what is the song? He said, Were You There When They Crucified My Lord? And so the three of us under this tent in the middle of the field sang while Gandhi Ji and his three companions bowed in prayer. And when we finished, each of us knew, within the tight circle of his most private intimacy, that he was in the presence of God, alone to whom he was responsible for the living of his life. And there was no Hindu, there was no Christian, there was no Buddhist. Human spirits, open the fullness, to the depth, to the height, to the love of God. 35 years, death, war, pestilence, violences, agonies, heights, deaths, separate me from that moment. But what I felt then is what every man feels sometime, somewhere, when he least expects it, and he either follows it or he betrays it. Which do you do? Go thy way, all things say. Thou hast thy way to go, thou hast thy life to live. No other can do for thee that appointed thee of God. So go thy way and live thy life, thy life. How precious, also, are thy thoughts unto me? Oh, God, God, God. How great is the sum of them? When I awake, I am still with thee. For the sharing of thy spirit, or for the honoring of our 4 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu flesh, and the touch of thy finger on our hearts and minds, are all a little ways by which we cannot escape thy love. We give to thee the quiet thanks of grateful hearts. Pitts Theology Library Emory University Of course we have betrayed thee, Father, sometimes, sometimes without knowing it, other times against our conscious will, sometimes with our own assent, our fears, our troubles, our frustrations, our despairs, our disappointments, our impotence, to help those whom we love in their moments of greatest desperation and greatest need. Sometimes we do get so very weary, God. Will thou remember this? Will thou remember? Search me, oh God, and know my heart. Try me and know my thoughts, and see if there be any wicked way in me, and leave me in the way everlasting. And for us, this is enough. Oh God, our Father. Amen. 5 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Lay-clergy Institute (1973, First Congregational Church, Longmont, CO) Description An account of the resource The Lay-clergy Institute hosted by the First Congregational Church in Longmont, Colorado, is described as "a gift to the community, and provide opportunities to consider, discuss, and act on a wide array of philosophical and social issues." The program is now called the <a href="http://privilegetopromise.weebly.com/about-mind--soul.html">Mind &amp; Soul Series</a>.<br /><br />According to their website, "The First Congregational United Church of Christ has a long history of active social justice and bringing challenging conversations and topics to the forefront in our congregation and larger community." Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1973 AudioWithTranscription Audio that is shown through the 3Play Media embedded interactive transcript Audio with Transcription <iframe width="100%" height="820" frameborder="0" src="/files/players/394-040_A.html" ></iframe> Location The location of the interview, speech, lecture, or sermon Lay-clergy Institute, Longmont, Colorado Internal Notes Notes for project team Edited - GL 8/4 Original Title Title as transcribed from tape cassette The Dilemma of Religious Experience (Lay-clergy Institute, Colorado), 1973 Apr 1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 394-040_A Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Thurman, Howard Title A name given to the resource The Dilemma of Religious Experience, 1973 April 1 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1973-04-01 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="http://pid.emory.edu/ark:/25593/rp8k9">MSS 394</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available <a href="http://pitts.emory.edu/">Pitts Theology Library, Emory University</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/"><img style="border-width:0;" src="https://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc/4.0/80x15.png" alt="80x15.png" /></a><br />This work is licensed under a <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/">Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International License</a>. 2019. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant GEOMETRYCOLLECTION(POINT(-11701654.785325 4891350.5502076)) Description An account of the resource Sunday morning service Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Description by ShaCarolyn Halyard