1 10 3 https://thurman.pitts.emory.edu/files/original/bbddc410ec98bfba07b897508fc6bdb3.pdf f03f9ce8fc7e73cc2e6ed41eeedca7e4 PDF Text Text Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu 394-474_A.mp3 Pitts Theology Library Emory University Thinking together, I want to express my own appreciation for the experience, which I have had during these three Wednesday nights. Mrs. Thurman was very much confused because they thought that I had had a [INAUDIBLE] or something, and I agreed to come down every Wednesday night for three Wednesday nights while, for a year, she'd been trying to get me to do something. And I didn't do it. So I'm glad she got to come with us tonight, so she could see for herself. [LAUGHTER] I also wish to express my appreciation to the committee and to all of you, who have been coming each Wednesday. And as the youngsters say, hanging in despite the difficulties because you couldn't hear her. I didn't [INAUDIBLE]-- whatever it was. If you didn't hear, I'm sorry because it meant you wasted your time, and I wasted mine. Tonight, I hope that you can hear. And if you can't, then I'm going to do all that I can to protect myself for tomorrow. [LAUGHTER] By saying it as often as I can, when I say it. My thinking tonight is divided into two sections. I want to take some time to read two or three things before I begin thinking with you. The first two things that I'm reading are taken from a very [INAUDIBLE] book by Arthur McCall. And the title of the book is The Hand of God. It's out of print and as [INAUDIBLE], it has been out of print for some time. If you can find it in a secondhand bookstore or anywhere else, please secure it. It is one of the great books having to do with the inner pilgrimage of the human spirit. It is called The Hand of God. And these first two things come from it. His name shall be in their foreheads, said the book. They shall see his face, and his name shall be there. They became like that which they loved, said the book. Then I fell into dream, and the spirit spoke to me until I knew not whether to shudder or rejoice. Be under no illusion, you shall gather to yourself the images you love. As you go, the shapes, the lights, the shadows of the things you have preferred will come to you in [INAUDIBLE] as bees to their hive. And then in your mind and spirit, they will leave with you their distilled essence, sweet as honey or bitter as gall. And you will grow unto their likeness because their nature will be in you. As man sees [INAUDIBLE] so shall man see in you the thing you have loved most. Out of your eyes, will look the spirit you have chosen. In your smile and in your frown, the years will see. You will not walk nor stand nor sit nor will your hand move. But you will confess the one you serve. And upon your forehead will be written his name as by a revealing pen. Cleverness may select skillful workers to cast a veil above you. And the second structure they never see, yet, [INAUDIBLE]. As year adds to year, that face of yours, which once like [INAUDIBLE] lay smooth in your baby crib will take to itself lines and still more lines as the parchment of an old historian who justly sets down all stories, and there more deep than acids 1 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu etch the steel will grow the inscribed narrative of your mental [INAUDIBLE], the emotions of your heart, your sense of conscious, your response to duty, what you think of your God, what you think of your fellow man, what you think of yourself-- it will all be there, for men become like that which they love. Pitts Theology Library Emory University An artist, thou hast given me this mind, and thou hast set me within a world of ideas that clash with many things I was taught to think. Does thou wish me to board up my mind's windows and refuse [INAUDIBLE]. Some demand this of me. What does thou demand? [INAUDIBLE] please but I always continue to believe even against evidence what I learned [INAUDIBLE]. Does that please thee most? Does thou thyself know everything in that book? Did you truly and finally [INAUDIBLE] everything silently? Dost thou find acceptable all the creeds-- or the Apostles' Creed, the Westminster Confession? Art thou very glad for them and satisfied? Have I been given [INAUDIBLE] thou wouldst change [INAUDIBLE]? And have they defined and described thee [INAUDIBLE]? Wouldst thou change anything? Is it all etiquette, Lord? Which is it, Lord? If I think shall I lose thee, or shall I lose thee if I do not think? [INAUDIBLE] man found here in these laws a burden of my mind? Indeed, not to lose, thee, oh, my God, but rather, to find and know thee, more and more. This is become all my hope and all my prayer. A curse upon him who relies on man, who depends upon mere human aid, for he is like some desert scrub, set in a [INAUDIBLE], solitary place in the steppes. But happy is he who relies on God, who has God for his confidence, for he is like a tree planted beside a stream, sending his roots down to the water. He had no fear of scorching heat. His leaves are always green. He goes on bearing fruit when all around him is barren. And he looks out on life with quiet eyes. We become [INAUDIBLE] on our journey together. And tonight, I want you to think with me for awhile about the fruits of your religious experience. You may remember that earlier, we thought of the religious experience as being very private, very personal, very intimate. And in a sense, it seems to me that when we share profoundly and intimately and [INAUDIBLE] in the religious experience, it is as if in that experience, we [INAUDIBLE] are the same, alone, existing, all the universe, only myself and God [INAUDIBLE]. Yes, that's it. It is private. It is personal. It is intimate and breathtaking because in that moment, it seems like [INAUDIBLE] because time has no relevancy in this dimension of our experience. In that moment, it seems as if something deeper at the core of me opens up to the same quality that surrounds everything. And [INAUDIBLE] that in the religious experience, God comes to himself in me. And ever, I am on the scent of this. In all of the wide-ranging manifestations of my spirit, I stand in my place, doing my work, living my life. But there's a part of me that sniffs the air-- that gazes down the highways of my life, trying to find in a world external to myself, that which has come to itself in me. 2 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Pitts Theology Library Emory University And this is why we mentioned earlier that Judge [INAUDIBLE] said when he came down from [INAUDIBLE], all the world had a new smell-- the song that we used to sing when I was a boy-when you come out of the wilderness, your hands look new. Your feet look new. The world looks new. This is from [INAUDIBLE]. And it's true to me that when God comes to himself in me, I then look for him everywhere, in everything. The whole and total dimensions of my life become in themselves sacramental. And so, it has direct bearing then in terms of the truth-- how I relate to my [INAUDIBLE]. It is interesting to me that in my reading of the transcendent and dramatic case that the whole love that they had and the religious experience of Jesus that it is not the thing that binds one man to another. The whole meaning of a love [INAUDIBLE], as we call it now-- a sophisticated way-is not moral exclusively, and sometimes, I think, not ethical, primarily, but it is spiritual. It's spiritual. It's time to get [INAUDIBLE] trying to unlock the door in you that lets God out of prison. You remember [INAUDIBLE]. It's very [INAUDIBLE]. The king is on the throne, and the king is [INAUDIBLE]. You remember the scene. We call it the last judgment. The sheep on the right- I mean, the sheep on the right, and the goats on the left, [INAUDIBLE]. [LAUGHTER] Now, the interesting thing is what determines whether a person goes to the right or the left? Is it the arbitrary judgment of the despot on the throne? Is it some measuring of deeds and [INAUDIBLE]? But what does he say? Not a man was sick. I was sick-- not a man was in prison. I was in prison. Not a man was naked. I was naked. And you did or did not-- that I now view-- I [INAUDIBLE] to your need in order that God might come to himself in you so that the whole love ethic about which we speak so much is ingenious. Spiritual, I say, more than or even rather than ethical and moral. Now, think about it tomorrow before you [INAUDIBLE] tonight. So that when I have ministered to human needs, what I'm doing is making it possible for the needy person to experience God's coming to himself in him in that condition. And this is one of the reasons why it seems very unfortunate but quite understandable psychologically that thinking of a loving thing, or thinking of ethics even, or morality in terms of the truth of the religious experience, we are apt to make a system [INAUDIBLE]-- to make a system out of the ethics, out of morality. For instance, [INAUDIBLE] Christianity. We really have made a system out of the love ethic so that it is something that I can handle, that I can believe in it, that I can use without involving myself, primarily in the idiom that I'm trying to express so that I can become a professional [INAUDIBLE] with no binding spiritual values on myself. I can manipulate it out here, and stand behind it and not be involved. It is just something that's happened before in the history of religions. You may recall that in Hinduism, that the whole concept of reverence for life at first was a spiritual and ethical judgment that's suddenly in the mind, and the warp and woof of the devout and dedicated Hindu 3 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu believer. And then the time came in the development of the religion that reverence for life became a technique, a method, a skill so that it could be manipulated by the conscientious Hindu with nothing binding on himself. Pitts Theology Library Emory University He was back here, and the ethic was here. He applied it here, he applied it there, he applied it there. [INAUDIBLE] empathy-- that was created in the soul of that religion. There was born Buddhism, which once again reintroduced the private, personal participation in the ethic. And this is what [INAUDIBLE]. And is this the temptation always, isn't it? And this is what we have done. The fruits of religious experience in terms of morality and values is that in the religious experience, God comes to himself in me. And I-- because of that experience-- I see and feel myself now as the tabernacle of God so that my self [INAUDIBLE]. My self essence is lifted. Jesus expressed this in a very [INAUDIBLE]. Do you remember? It was [INAUDIBLE] in his career when some man brought a woman who had [INAUDIBLE] in adultery. You remember. And they said to him, we caught her in the act of adultery. The law says that she should be stoned to death. You say that you came upholding the law. What is your judgment in this matter? Do you remember how our master dealt with that? He said, let the man among you who is without spot or blemish, let him cast the first stone. After that, anybody can throw. And a long silence while the master doodled on the ground. Hearing no cry of anguish, no scream from pain, he lifted his [INAUDIBLE] and [INAUDIBLE]. He looked at her now for the first time. He did not want to mingle his gaze with the stares these others. He was such a gentleman. And then he said, [INAUDIBLE] does no man condemn thee? No? No man [INAUDIBLE]. Neither do I. Go. Go and don't do anything more. He met her where she was, as she was, but he sees her as if she were where she should have been. And by so doing, he literally believed her into the maximum experience of the blossoming of God in her life. So the first and thus the most crucial fruit of religious experience, that of God which I discover. In my primary religious experience [INAUDIBLE] I stripped [INAUDIBLE] is in me that is literal and irreducible. And I [INAUDIBLE]. Then hunt for it everywhere. And you, you, you, [INAUDIBLE] to the religious experience. And I make the surrender of my [INAUDIBLE]. In turn, he'll redeem me of [INAUDIBLE]. Then another kind of miracle takes place. I give myself to him in the surrender, and he gives me back to me. And there's so much more to me now. And what has been the gift of him to me, I become the bearer of that gift to you and you. As [INAUDIBLE] said, that she goes all over the world giving birth to Jesus Christ and other human beings. It's a quaint way of putting it. But the essence is there, I give myself, and I have myself given back to me. And that's [INAUDIBLE]. But that's what the [INAUDIBLE] is. There's a miracle involved with it, where I love someone and I give myself. They give me back to me and I'm so much richer because [INAUDIBLE] where I'm giving back to me, all the things that I didn't have before, I gathered when I was visiting you, and I bring them back to me. [INAUDIBLE]. 4 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Pitts Theology Library Emory University Essentially, in terms of the fruit, is it-- how do I say this-- yes, I discovered that my religious experience-- no, that's wrong. There must never be [INAUDIBLE] religious experience. Those [INAUDIBLE] that the energy of my religious experience cannot provide. Now, I [INAUDIBLE] because this deals with a lot of the central issues facing the Christian church in this year of our Lord, 1980-- and it is this. Is that a relationship between the Lord that I expect my religious experience to carry and the depth of my religious experience. Do I demand of my religious experience what it doesn't have enough energy to give? Now, to apply it in terms of what is facing the Christian church today, can any sectarian religious experience-- can any sectarian religious experience supply enough energy, enough vitality, enough power, to energize a world community? Can any sectarian religious experience support and sustain the demands of a universal morality? Or must the religious experience increasingly be as deep, as profound as is the ethic that is being required of this experience to support it in the world? Do I-- making it personal-- or do you demand of your religious experience-- that it support a world of values, of relationships, that exhaust it? Or does it mean that a part of the discipline of religious experience is always to deepen it and deepen it and deepen it and deepen it so that the more that is demanded of it in the transformation of the world, the farther down we must go to get energy and strength to sustain it. When I was at Fellowship Church-- just to illustrate what I'm talking about-- I would go east for about four weeks-- five weeks-- in the wintertime to do [INAUDIBLE]-- to talk everywhere. And the purpose of the talking was to get support for the church in its struggle, and also, to pay my life insurance. Now, and this meant four weeks doing something every day and every night. And when I would come back, my secretary, who's a man, would meet me sometimes as far away as the [INAUDIBLE]-- as far away as Sacramento, and ride with me into San Francisco to greet me [INAUDIBLE]. At one meeting, he said to me that a new group has formed while you were away. And he talked about it. And [INAUDIBLE]. And we're waiting for you to get back so that you can do whatever [INAUDIBLE] does under those circumstances. And I said, no, I need about a month or even longer because every time a new limb grows out of a tree, I-- we have got to deepen the root system. So that the root system now will get energy enough to support this new limb. If not, the new limb will take strength from all the others, and all the fruit will being to disintegrate. Now, this is what I'm talking about-- that what I demand in terms of the transformation of the world, or what my [INAUDIBLE] demands, or what [INAUDIBLE] or whatever the vision of God that is in me demands, I don't-- 5 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Deep Calls Unto Deep (1980, San Mateo, CA) Description An account of the resource In this series, Thurman discusses three primary topics: the meaning of religious experience, the idea of total surrender to God, and the intimacy of a deeper relationship with God through religious experience. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1980 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Descriptions by ShaCarolyn Halyard AudioWithTranscription Audio that is shown through the 3Play Media embedded interactive transcript Audio with Transcription <iframe width="100%" height="820" frameborder="0" src="/files/players/394-474_A.html" ></iframe> Time Period The decade in which the recording was produced. 1980s Location The location of the interview, speech, lecture, or sermon San Mateo, California Original Title Title as transcribed from tape cassette Deep Calls Unto Deep, part 3: Fruits of the Religious Experience (San Mateo; Faith and Life Lecture), 1980 Feb 6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 394-474_A Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Thurman, Howard Title A name given to the resource Deep Calls Unto Deep, Part 3: Fruits of the Religious Experience, 1980 February 6 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="http://pid.emory.edu/ark:/25593/rp8k9">MSS 394</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available <a href="http://pitts.emory.edu/">Pitts Theology Library, Emory University</a> Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1980-02-06 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/"><img style="border-width:0;" src="https://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc/4.0/80x15.png" alt="80x15.png" /></a><br />This work is licensed under a <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/">Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International License</a>. 2019. Description An account of the resource In the third installment of Deep Calls Unto Deep Thurman speaks to the intimacy of deeper relationship with God as it relates to a religious experience. As we come to our self in God, God comes to himself in us. Thurman also speaks to the system of ethics and morality that has been created out of the religious experience which begs the question whether it is our relationship with the Lord or our religious experience that we expect to carry us and bring about transformation in the world. Can our sectarian religious experience at work in the church of the 1980s truly provide the depth needed to support and sustain the demands of universal morality? Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Description by ShaCarolyn Halyard ethics morality religious experience https://thurman.pitts.emory.edu/files/original/2de60d877e953d7c6e298f2a5a5ea5e3.pdf 4b497494402af1602c185a54963864af PDF Text Text Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu 394-473_A.mp3 I have just come back from Seattle, where it was 12 degrees above zero. And my nervous system hasn't discovered that it's in San Francisco. [LAUGHTER] Pitts Theology Library Emory University [INTERPOSING VOICES] We bear our lives to the scrutiny-- to the judgment-- to the love of God. There is so much that burdens the mind that people with good thoughts-- that again and again we are confused, even in the great, quiet presence of God. We yield to God our confusions-- the chaos of our minds and spirits-- the tensions that tame the glory of the love of God out of our lives. We yield to God our frailties and our limitations-- our quiet, physical pains and the long chain of anxieties they inspire. We fatigue of spirits, because, with reference to our private burdens, often we become so very tired. We yield the desires of our minds and our hearts-- the private intimate wishes, by which, again and again, the strings of our attentions are fed and kept alive. We yield the desires of which we are ashamed-- those desires that buffet our spirits-- that torture our minds and yet seem to cling to us with such tenacity. We yield our joys-- the joy of being alive-- the joy in renewed friendships-- the joy in reestablished and reconciled life-- the joy in the day's work and the night's rest-- the sheer joy of being loved-- of caring and being cared for. We yield our concerns for the world, where we are exposed to much that casts down and depresses and often so little that uplifts and inspires. War and the threat of war-- the long loneliness and the death watch-- it seems to stalk our country and fill our civilization with deadly, dry rot. We yield our lives-- the nerve centers of our consent, lest the mainstreams of all our values collapse, and we become like shadows in the night. All of this-- and more than tongue can say and heart can feel and mind can think-- all this we yield to the scrutiny, to the judgment, and to the love of God. There is in every person an endless sea, and in that sea, there is an island. And on that island, there is an altar, and standing guard before that altar is the angel with the flaming sword. Nothing can get by that angel, to be placed upon that altar, unless it has the mark of your inner authority. Nothing passes the angel with the flaming sword, to be placed upon your altar, unless it be a part of the fluid area of your consent. This is your crucial link with the turn. 1 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Perhaps the unique thing about the religious experience is the fact that it makes a total demand upon the self. It demands the yielding of the nerve center of consent. And this is very difficult to do, because it is so threatening. Pitts Theology Library Emory University I am never sure that even God can be trusted with absolute authority over my life, for He may have something in mind, with reference to my life that I have no intention of letting Him have. So I give it, and I snatch it back. I yield, and then I change my mind. The nerve center of my consent is the heart of the religious experience, in terms of what God demands of me. And even after I yield the nerve center of my consent, the work of involving my life in the moving, creative spirit of God in this world has just begun. And I ask myself which one of me am I giving to God. Do you remember the account in the life of the Master, in which he talks to a man who was possessed-- as they thought in that time-- he was chained to the rocks, particularly during the full moon. And then he'd have these great tidal waves of energy and tear himself away from the rocks. And he would go through the hills screaming like an animal in pain. And then he met Jesus, or shall I say Jesus met him? Anyway, they met. And Jesus asked him one question. Do you remember? Not what's wrong with you-- how did you get that way-- one simple question-- what is your name? Who you are? Ha! That's it-- I don't know who I am. There are so many of me, and they riot in my streets. If I knew that, I would be free. Which one of me am I willing to surrender? Or is there a "me" me? I don't know. Because it takes a lifetime to discover which of me is the one that carries the load of me. The me that I see when I'm stripped to whatever there is that is literal and irreducible in myself? The me that functions, stripped of all pretensions? That sudden moment of transcendent illumination, wherein the context of our relationships, I let down my guard, rather than going through life this way, looking [INAUDIBLE] There comes a time when something happens, and I let it down. And I, then, am completely vulnerable. And what I want, most of all, is to have the experience of utter and absolute vulnerability-- and utter and absolute security. I want, somehow, in the circling series of all my days and months and years, to be free to be me. And I feel, by our tradition-- by my insights that move in and out of my horizon like some fleeting ghost-- I feel that I can trust God with this. So that the essence of my religious experience is to go through the-- to use the word experience again-- to go through the experience of stripping until I lay bare to God Himself in me. And God claims God in me. And when that happens, I can trust it. But I'm not sure. [LAUGHTER] 2 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu For it may be He has been waiting for a long time to find someone with my particular abilities-my particular sensitivities-- my particular whatever it is. Because he has something that has to be done in His world. How long He's been waiting, I don't know. But at last, He rejoices, because He has found me. And I fit. Pitts Theology Library Emory University In a book-- to relax a minute-- in a book written by a lady-- say, what's her name-- Jane Staylor, who wrote Leaves from a Secret Journey. She talks about how many years she wrestled with her spirit, trying to bring herself to the point that she would make a complete surrender of her life to God. And at last, one glorious day, she did it! The camel walked through the needle's eye. And her utter humiliation-- instead of God asking her to do something tremendous that would stretch herself out of shape in order to do it-- cutting across all of her sensitivities and all of the required prejudices and moods and temperament. No. The only thing God asked her to do was to clean out her bureau drawers and keep them clean. [LAUGHTER] But in doing it, she discovered that, in order to do that, a complete revolution has to take place in her entire life, and she became a new person. You just don't know what the Creator of life and the living substance has in mind and how long He has been waiting for me to say yes-- yes-- yes. Now this is difficult, again. Because it takes us such a long time to come to one's self. Now think of the-- do you remember? No, you don't remember. [LAUGHTER] But you seen a little baby crawling along on the floor. And then, for some reason that no one can understand, suddenly the baby starts crawling and staggers up on his two feet-- suspended between the ceiling and the floor. And when he becomes aware of what has happened, the floor rises up to meet him. [LAUGHTER] But all of his organism says, I did it! I asserted myself all against the entire environment. I did it. And I fight for the right to lay claim to my private territory. It's a long struggle, finally to achieve a sense of self-- a sense of persona. Now, in the religious experience, what is required-- that I give it up. And, again and again, I have no intention of doing that. And God has no intention of letting me get away. So I begin now, once I have decided-- and it's more than that-- you see how I say decide-- that seems to suggest that I am talking about merely an act of will. The words aren't any good. I don't mean just to say I will-- I do-- but how can I say this? At my very center-- at my very core-- to give up to God dominion over life-- and to be willing to be obedient to His will-to the moving, creating energy of His spirit-- and to discover, for the first time now, that when I do that, I come to myself-- for the first time. 3 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Pitts Theology Library Emory University And it's strong medicine. Oh, yes, it is. Forgive me. It's strong medicine. And it's hard to be in the midst of your fellows, who are wondering sort of aimlessly-- don't know where they're going- what they're doing-- can't get anything straightened out about the direction of their lives-- don't know how to put the resources of their lives at the disposal of a central concern and an overwhelming conviction. And in the midst of them, I've seen souls not only secure, but so superior. And I'm like the man who went to the temple to pray. I'm glad I came, but I'm gladdest of all that I'm not like that fellow there. I can so easily make an idol out of my surrender, so that, in the pursuit of my response-- authentic response-- to the movement of the spirit and the will of God in me, I become so sure that I forget the most important element in religious experience-- and that is that I can always be mistaken. Now please hear me clearly. There is no guarantee against self-deception. So that the essence of a dynamism of religious experience makes in the individual makes for humility. I'm always trying to true my life by the spirit-- by the mind-- by the will of God-- as it comes through to me. But when God is moving in me, I may be doing something somewhere else. I can always be in mistaken, and therefore I should not ever permit the integrity of my religious experience to make me arrogant-- prideful-- tyrannical. Now, one or two more little steps. There are so many complexities in the individual life-- your life-- my life. Each life is so complicated-- so involved. There's so many strings that go way back that it takes a long time for the word of my surrender to God to get to the outlying districts. [LAUGHTER] You know the dog girl-- I can't quote it, but I give you the essence of it-- of the Dachshund-- you know, the sausage dog? He's barking furiously at a man-- his hackles up-- or whatever these things are-- and eyes are dancing. He's ready for the attack, while his tail is wagging in a very friendly way. Because his tail just now registers a good emotion he had two weeks before. [LAUGHTER] This is a complexity of it, so that all my life-- even to the end of my days, and I think even beyond-- the Word is trying to get into the outlying districts of my life. So that I [INAUDIBLE] that I have surrendered my will or my heart or my mind to God. I always say, I am surrendering- for, around the next turn in the road, I might have an encounter with a human being who, regardless of the way his hair is cut-- or because of some quality in his voice-- or because of a manner he has-- I am reminded of something that I thought long ago that I had conquered. Every time I meet a new person, there may be revealed to me some area of my life that has not been surrendered. And I start over and over and over again. And it may be the time will come when, with all of me, I can say yes. I don't know. Because there are parts of me that are very important-- very crucial-- and I don't know when they became a part of me. And then I meet you, and you stir something in my psyche. And I am brought back face to face with some long forgotten moment that registered and left its impact. 4 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu But I didn't know it. So that the essence, then, of the surrender leads the individual inevitably to a life of prayer-- prayer. Pitts Theology Library Emory University When I joined the church as a little boy-- 12-- it was the very moment, because in our little community, I went before what we called the deacons' board. You know the deacons, yeah. I went before them, and they had the questions. They were the screening committee for God. [LAUGHTER] And they asked me what did I want. And I said, I want to be Christian. And the chairman said, you want to be Christian? You come to us after you have become a Christian-- you go back and come again. [LAUGHTER] Well, I did go back, and I told my grandmother what they said. And she said, come with me. [LAUGHTER] So she took me by the hand, and we walked back to the church before the deacons adjourned. And she told them a few things. [LAUGHTER] And they took me into the church. [LAUGHTER] And it was a Baptist church. I was baptized in the Halifax River in Daytona. And of course, that was the source of a part of the support that I gave to my family. Because I would take orders for fish in the morning, go down to the river and catch the fish, and deliver them in the afternoon. And then the fish and I had an agreement. [LAUGHTER] The Monday after my baptism, I was in my boat-- about noon-- the weather changed-- the tide turned, and when the tide turned the angelfish did their most choice in discriminating, biting up at the drawbridge. So I decided I would take my boat up there. I was pulling against the tide, and the hold slipped. And my head fell and hit the bench behind me, and out of my mouth came a spiraling series of exquisite profanities. [LAUGHTER] And I remembered-- just yesterday, in that very water, I had promised my God that I would be true to the Spirit in me. And this is the story of the struggle. 5 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Always-- always-- there may be a moment when I am so absorbed in the matter at hand-- when I am utterly unmindful of commitments-- all I see is the fulfillment of the urgency of the moment. And if I have a sensitive heart and an open spirit, and if I have developed the discipline of laying bare my life, in order to be taken to God, it just may be, at such a time, I will feel Him nudging on the elbow, and I try again. Pitts Theology Library Emory University So that I cannot separate-- and I'm almost through now, but not quite-- I cannot separate the discipline of a religious experience and the demand that it makes that I yield the nerve center of my consent to God. I can't separate that from the long, slow pilgrimage failing, succeeding-trying and deciding not to try-- praying that the [INAUDIBLE] Lord, make me a good man, but not yet-[LAUGHTER] --this feeling. And God, oh, how I wish I knew how to love you. God waits, in season and out of season, brooding over my failures-- my frustrations-- my willfulness-- waiting and never giving up, until at last, that of Him that is at the core of me-- the very idiom of my self throws wide its arms to welcome the God of life. And when the God of life embraces Himself in me, the morning stars sing together. And all the sons of God shout for joy. My job, then-- my job is to work at it. My job is not to get results. That's God's. My job is to work at it. Do you remember the instance when-- it's one of the very dramatic stories that the Master tells-of the man who had an estate. And he decided he'd go away on a trip and sort of do some big spending. And he lost his recruit when he got back. So he called three of his people to it. You remember the story. And he figured he'd won so much and won so much and won so much. And when he came back, they reported-- and you remember. Every man reported. The last man, he recalled. Did more than report-- he made a speech. Remember? And the Master says that he was put off the estate, not because he didn't show a profit, but because he did no work at it. He didn't work at it! This is all that God requires. I surrender in the religious experience. I surrender the nerve center of my consent. And I keep doing it-- in season or out of season-- failing and failing and trying and failing and trying. But always against that failure, the living spirit of a living God keeps pushing and pushing and pushing. And as long as I can feel the pressure of His hands, I know that I am not alone. And with Him, there is not anything that can ultimately be withheld from me. So a curse on Him who relies on a man-- who depends upon mere human aid-- for he is like some desert scrub that never thrives-- set in a solemn, solitary place in the steps. But happy is he who relies on God-- who has God for his confidence-- for he is like a tree planted beside a stream, sending his roots down to the water. He has no fear of scorching heat. 6 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu His leaves are always green. He goes on bearing fruit, when all around him is barren, and he looks out on life with quiet eyes-- with quiet eyes, eyes. Pitts Theology Library Emory University [APPLAUSE] 7 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Deep Calls Unto Deep (1980, San Mateo, CA) Description An account of the resource In this series, Thurman discusses three primary topics: the meaning of religious experience, the idea of total surrender to God, and the intimacy of a deeper relationship with God through religious experience. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1980 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Descriptions by ShaCarolyn Halyard AudioWithTranscription Audio that is shown through the 3Play Media embedded interactive transcript Audio with Transcription <iframe width="100%" height="820" frameborder="0" src="/files/players/394-473_A.html" ></iframe> Internal Notes Notes for project team Not sure about exact location, San Mateo or San Francisco - GL 5/14/19 Time Period The decade in which the recording was produced. 1980s Location The location of the interview, speech, lecture, or sermon San Mateo, California Original Title Title as transcribed from tape cassette Deep Calls Unto Deep, part 2: The Demands of Religious Experience (San Mateo; Faith and Life Lecture), 1980 Jan 30 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 394-473_A Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Thurman, Howard Title A name given to the resource Deep Calls Unto Deep, Part 2: The Demands of Religious Experience, 1980 January 30 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="http://pid.emory.edu/ark:/25593/rp8k9">MSS 394</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available <a href="http://pitts.emory.edu/">Pitts Theology Library, Emory University</a> Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1980-01-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/"><img style="border-width:0;" src="https://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc/4.0/80x15.png" alt="80x15.png" /></a><br />This work is licensed under a <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/">Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International License</a>. 2019. Description An account of the resource In the second installment of Deep Calls Unto Deep, Howard Thurman speaks to the idea of total surrender to God. This includes the need to surrender our private burdens and concerns as well as our spiritual being. The process of surrender is continuous as there will always be opportunities to discover areas that are not yet surrendered. Yet, it is not perfection that the Master requires, only that we work at it. We must continue to surrender in or out of season for we are never alone and with God, nothing will be withheld from us. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Description by ShaCarolyn Halyard religious experience Surrender https://thurman.pitts.emory.edu/files/original/80b70ffdb36d7ef03be73cc6b28df78e.pdf 108cbe961d2fd13fe3d1829eae3795ce PDF Text Text Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu 394-472_A.mp3 Pitts Theology Library Emory University Very glad to be here and to have the opportunity to [INAUDIBLE] with you tonight about the meaning of the religious experience. As a background for thinking together, I want to read two things. How wonderful it is beyond all power fully to understand that our lives are never left to themselves alone. It does not matter where we are, nor what tasks consume our energies. There's always present, something more than we ourselves are at any given moment. Always, we are visited. Sometimes it is by an idea for which we do not seem to have had any previous preparation. Sometimes by the penetration of an inspiration that shoots us out of the common path onto roads of high adventure. Sometimes by the accumulated energy of a precious memory sharing acquired [INAUDIBLE] over the entire landscape along which we walk. Sometimes we are called to do a hard job before there is time to falter. A quickening of the pulse, a tightening of the mind, and away way we go. Always, we are busy. We are surrounded by the memory-- the witness-- and often the presence of those others whose names we may or may not know. Whose striving make possible so much upon which we draw as our common heritage. Those who carry the light against the darkness, those who stand up against tyranny, even when to stand is not only idiotic, but suicidal. Those who forget themselves and the poor response to something that caused them beyond the reaches of their dream and the reaches of their hope. We are surrounded by the testimony of those who are of the life of the spirit, speak directly to our spirit and to our needs. Those men and women with whom we identify in our moments of depression and despair, and in our moments of joy and delight. Therefore, our Father, we remember with gratitude to Thee all the strains of joy, renewal, and recreation that are our common heritage and our common lot. We thank You for it's so good of You, and we offer to Thee our dedication and our response. And then this, in every life, there are a few special moments that count for more than all the rest because they meant the taking of a stand, a self-commitment, a decisive choice. It is the pressing need to find meaning for one's life, to subordinate the whole of life to that meaning. It is this need, this inner aspiration, which is from God. All the ideologies, all the doctrines, and all the formulae drawn up by man will pass. Every ideal, too, grows old in its turn. Only the true and the living God remains. Thus, the knowing encounter with the living God is the greatest possible human event. The circumstances and forms of this encounter may be infinite in their variety. It always comes as such a surprise that the conviction is inescapable that this is the doing of God, the result of His direct initiative. 1 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu There's a favorite paragraph of mine from the book of Jeremiah, and it is this-- a curse on him who relies on man, who depends upon mere human aid, for he is like some desert scrub that never thrived, set in a salt, solitary place in the steppe. Pitts Theology Library Emory University But happy is he who relies on God, who has God for his confidence, for he is like a tree planted beside a stream, sending its roots down to the water. It has no fear of scorching heat. It goes on bearing fruit when all around him is barren, and it looks out on life with quiet eye. The religious experience-- it is very important-- more than that, it is very critical that our minds and our thinking, it should be directed to this area of the common experience, of the common quest of the human spirit at this critical moment in human history. If I was 20 years younger, and of the same mind that I have now, I would devote the next 10 years in making a critical analytical study, comparative study, in between this period in Western civilization in culture and history, as compared with the end of the 19th century. As the Roman Empire began to decline, to disintegrate, there are certain striking comparisons. And I simply salute these in passing, because if they're physically examined, they would not be comparisons at all, but this is how it seems to me. During the closing days of the eclipse and the fading of the Roman Empire, for, oh, several decades, something happened so that the universe decided not to rain, long months and years of drought, and that is equivalent to a gasoline shortage now. [LAUGHTER] In addition to this, the Roman citizen, the average Roman citizen, had lost his sense of responsibility for the fate of the empire. They had retreated into the privacy of their little worlds and their affairs, and left matters that had to do with the destiny of the country, the government, to the Senate and to some other people who, at that time, were in power, including the emperor. In addition to that, there was a loss of faith in the integrity and vitality of the religion of the empire, which is stoicism. One historian characterizes it as a loss of nerve. This meant that there were no points on the horizon to which the individual could look to give to himself a sense of security, a sense of bearing, a sense of direction, some overarching, brooding guide that would nudge him on the elbow when he made the wrong turn in the road. This had disappeared. A phenomenal increase in homosexuality between men and boy, and smoking up from Mount Africa, in-- what's the word-- its spiritual gasp where the mystery, meditation, sacrifices of blood, all of this. Now into that vacuum, or should I say maelstrom, emerged the religion of a Palestinian Jew, Jesus of Nazareth. Now, and I suggest it to you that the stage is set again for the emergence of a religion which seems to take into account for all that is needful for the peace and security of the human spirit in the midst of a world that seems to be disintegrating before its very eyes. I don't know. But if I were 20 years younger, I would spend 10 years pursuing this. 2 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu [LAUGHTER] So those of you who are very young, and full of ambition and dreams, child, I would be gone, but somebody would be here to read it. Pitts Theology Library Emory University [LAUGHTER] I begin, then, with the overall proposition or statement of affirmation about religious experience, thus, that the essence of religious experience is what I am calling tonight the givenness of God in His creation, the givenness of God. Just don't bother about trying to know what on earth I'm talking about now, just sort of wander along with me, and suddenly, next year, go by [INAUDIBLE] or fast what he was talking about. To me, God is the Creator of life and the living substance that out of which all particular expressions of life arise. Nothing here is the creation of the individual life. I don't mean this, but the ground of being out of which all individual manifestations of vitality emerge in the first place. And a commonplace way to express that is that life itself is alive, not merely our individual expressions of life alive, but life is alive, the marrow of the mind can't quite grasp this. You know you are alive, and the person next to you may be alive, and you know your dog, your cat, all these things are alive, but that life itself is alive, that there is a profound rhythmic pulse beat that supports and sustains all alivenesses of every kind. God is not merely the Creator of life and the living substance, but if I thought God battles existence, so that there is no aspect of man's experience of life in any [INAUDIBLE] stories that is outside of the divine context. Now my thinking begins with this, so that when I say that the meaning of the religious experience in my thought is it is an expression, a manifestation, of the givenness of God in His creation. Therefore, any expression of life is within calling distances of the very idiom of God as a part of creation, so that the religious experience, then, becomes, in my thoughts, the experience in which the individual has a sense of being first grounded-- no, that's not the right word-- enveloped-- no- contained with vitality. It is not what I create with my mind. It is what I experience when I am stripped to death. It is literal and irreducible in me. It bypasses the mind. It bypasses the emotions. It is what I, when I am completely stripped of all of the things to which I refer when I wish to give meaning to myself. And that point is the most private and the most intimate of all experiences, and even though I talk about it, it is as if I am living my private life with others. So that the religious experience, then, is the experience in which I become conscious of what I'm calling now the givenness of God in me. It is private. It is personal. It is intimate. It is unique and universal. it is a very interesting thing to be dusted in-- I didn't find out, how long do I talk? 3 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu [LAUGHTER] Pitts Theology Library Emory University It is an interesting thing to me that the one religion that is most exclusive, most unique, most idiomatic-- that's the word-- namely Judaism, religion in which the individual dares to affirm a sense of private contract with the Creator of life, a covenanted people, so that that's their religion, and they'll gladly step over against all the others which they are [INAUDIBLE] words, felt like and looked likely the words were spoken, as it is that private, unique, sectarian, if you please, religion out of which is come the universal God. This is the paradigm. Now, that's an aside to pursue. The religious experience, then, is when I am aware of the givenness of God in me. Now, hold up, what on Earth am I talking about? Now this is what I mean. When I am most me, when I am-well, the words won't appear. When I am most private, most personal, when it is as if I, and I alone, existed in all the universe-- when I am most utterly without rationalizations, without definitives, without-- just me, laid bare, and in that kind of stiffing, there emerges in me a sense of my uniqueness. It is only then that I have a sense of having the great truth it is of just being me, all of this I don't- I no longer fool around with my defenses up. I can just be as I am, making no case, no apology, just as if I were a part of the rhythm of all existence. When, now, I make this sort of experience, about which I am talking and thinking, an object of thought, finally, now, when I make this experience an object of thought, so that I can look at it and think about it, it is then that I develop theology. It is then that I develop creeds. It is then that I develop denominations. It is then that I develop all of these handles, the effort on the part of the mind, now, to reduce the fluid movement of religious experience to manageable units of thought and reflection, so that I can handle, I can talk about it, I can say, it means this, it means that. When the experience is so fluid, it cannot contain a meaning. That's why all the doctrines, moral creeds, or dogmas, however crucial and important they are, are inventions of the mind. They are what the mind does when the religious experience can be dammed, can-- yes, that's the word. You see, it's fluid. [LAUGHTER] I get God, too, you know? You see your mind did that, mind-[LAUGHTER] You see, the religious experience is fluid. It's dynamic. It's-- well, I want to use a word like yeasty, but I don't mean that quite, but it's alive! And it can't stay put! But the mind can't deal with it unless it stays put. So the mind deals it sort of down, or something like that, so that the religious experience can get still and settle down. 4 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu Pitts Theology Library Emory University Then the mind, now, extracts from that theology, doctrines of God. I don't want all of this. Meanwhile, the religious experience has gone on experiencing, so that every doctrine, every theology, every creed, every dogma, however important, critical, meaningful, significant it may be, it's just always a little out of date. Because it states what the religious experience was. Therefore, as soon as you get the statement made, the first thing you have to do is to tear it down and start again. Now, another step-- is there a difference between the religious experience and any other meaningful experience? Now bear in mind, the simple definition that I'm using is that the religious experience is that I become aware of the givenness of God in me, the givenness of God. It isn't something that I can bring to pass in me, an awareness by will. It isn't something that I can do, can experience by doing all of the [INAUDIBLE] that seem to be required in order to have it happen. No. There is something-- what's the word? There's something enigmatic-- no, that isn't the word. There's something arbitrary about the spirit of God that I feel. And this is the problem that always emerges when the individual works out disciplines, spiritual disciplines, spiritual exercises, there is something about Him which says that if I can get the formula, then automatically I may become conscious of the awareness which I'm calling the givenness of God. So all through the history of religions on this planet, men have tried to find ways by which they can ready themselves. We call those spiritual exercises, even prayers so often, meditation, all of these, that I can create a vacuum into which the awareness of God will move, and visit me, and let me visit Him. And I don't want to be misunderstood here. This demand, this activity are a part of the human experience in this dimension is one of the great expressions of the life of prayer, isn't it? But I-if I can find through whatever, if I can get, as Eckhart says, if I can rid myself of all creatureliness, that, automatically, God seals me up. That's only one side of it. There is a quiet the eye sees of a profound independence that the Creator of all existence has, and I do not think that it is ever quite possible for me to pull the string out of the Holy and make Him jump. I have to wait, in season and out of season, searching all of the corridors of my life of experience, a cleaning out of everything rich in my own feeling and in thought would cause Him to pass me by, spread out all the vast agony and desperation of my need and my [INAUDIBLE] so that enough pressure will be put upon Him that my need will bend His will to my necessity, presently good, presently enough. But I ignored it, didn't I-- that there is an awful arbitrariness about the Creator of existence. I may prepare. I may do all the things that are necessary, prayed through my life, confess my sins, forgive my enemies, go through all the things that my mind, and the sensitive spirit, and the anguish of my heart might require in order that I might be visited. And He may not come. 5 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu And some other time, when I am going about my other kind of business, and the thought of Him is not remotely moving around on the edges of my horizons, He appears. Therefore, the book says, around any turn in any road, anywhere, anywhere, without announcement, I might find myself in the presence of the burning bush, and hear a voice say, take off your shoes because the place where you are now standing is a holy place. Pitts Theology Library Emory University This is the nature of the religious experience. I am under obligation to ready myself through discipline and all the other things we will be mentioning before this series is over, but bearing in mind that the Creator of existence is the Creator of existence! And if I could make Him do my will, He would not be worthy of my worship. Now, oh boy-[LAUGHTER] Give me just two or three more minutes. The religious experience at its core is the awareness of the givenness of God in me and in His creation. George Fox said that he came down from Penn to zeal up his vision. All the world had a new smell. That's what he was talking about. When I was a boy in Florida, we used to sing that spiritual called "Come Out the Wilderness." My feet looked new. My hands looked new. The world looked new, and I came out the wilderness. But I can't determine. I can only be ready, and wait, and wait. Our responsibility is readiness. It is God's will, and perfect, however we may define it. To move in accordance with dimensions of reality the advisors of mind cannot draft. My responsibility is to be ready. The master of [INAUDIBLE] I will stop now, I think. In the parable that He tells, do you remember? He says that there was a man who had a great estate, and he decided he wanted to take a trip. So he called three of his important figures to speak to a conference. He said, I'm going away, and I'm going to have some heavy expenses, and I need to recoup my finances when I get back. So I'm going to give you $100, I'm going to give you $50, and I'm going to give you $25. Now let that money work as furiously as possible against the day when I come back for the report. So he came back. The first man reported. He said, you gave me $100. Here's $127.50. Good! [LAUGHTER] The second man he gave the $75, he had $92.35. Good! Now the only man who made a speech was the man to whom he gave the $25. And he said, you may not know it, but you have a bad reputation. You reap where you haven't sown. You kick people out that haven't invested. I knew that, so I hid the money against the day that you return. And here it is. Oh, I wish I had known Jesus. They said the man who owned the estate had this third man cast off the estate into outer darkness! Why? Because he did not show an increase? No, no, no, no. He didn't work at it. That's all that's recorded. There's no guarantee about anything, except the God in me is always reaching for the God in all of life. And when they come together in me, I have what is called the religious experience. 6 �Pitts Theology Library The Howard Thurman Digital Archive Transcription thurman.pitts.emory.edu A curse on him who relies on man, who depends upon mere human aid, for he is like some desert scrub that never thrives, set in a salt, solitary place in the steppes. But happy is he who relies on God, who has God for his confidence, for he is like a tree planted beside a stream, sending his roots down to the water. His leaves are always green. He goes on bearing fruit when all around him is barren. And he looks out on life with quiet eyes, quiet eyes. Pitts Theology Library Emory University [APPLAUSE] 7 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Deep Calls Unto Deep (1980, San Mateo, CA) Description An account of the resource In this series, Thurman discusses three primary topics: the meaning of religious experience, the idea of total surrender to God, and the intimacy of a deeper relationship with God through religious experience. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1980 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Descriptions by ShaCarolyn Halyard AudioWithTranscription Audio that is shown through the 3Play Media embedded interactive transcript Audio with Transcription <iframe width="100%" height="820" frameborder="0" src="/files/players/394-472_A.html" ></iframe> Internal Notes Notes for project team Not sure about exact location, San Mateo or San Francisco - GL 5/14/19 Time Period The decade in which the recording was produced. 1980s Location The location of the interview, speech, lecture, or sermon San Mateo, California Original Title Title as transcribed from tape cassette Deep Calls Unto Deep, part 1: The Meaning of Religious Experience (San Mateo; Faith and Life Lecture), 1980 Jan 23 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 394-472_A Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Thurman, Howard Title A name given to the resource Deep Calls Unto Deep, Part 1: The Meaning of Religious Experience, 1980 January 23 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="http://pid.emory.edu/ark:/25593/rp8k9">MSS 394</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available <a href="http://pitts.emory.edu/">Pitts Theology Library, Emory University</a> Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1980-01-23 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/"><img style="border-width:0;" src="https://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc/4.0/80x15.png" alt="80x15.png" /></a><br />This work is licensed under a <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/">Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International License</a>. 2019. Description An account of the resource In this first lecture of the Deep Calls Unto Deep series, Howard Thurman is lecturing on the meaning of the religious experience. The greatest possible experience that can be had is an encounter with the living God as man-made ideologies and will eventually pass away. However, it is through God the creator that all particular expressions of life arise. Therefore, the meaning of the religious experience is an expression, a manifestation, of the givenness of God in His creation. Thurman goes on to talk about the fluidity of religious experience and its inability to be controlled by doctrine or dogma for the religious experience at its core is the awareness of the givenness of God in us and His creation. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Description by ShaCarolyn Halyard religious experience